What part of U10 is PuGable on your realm?

[Threatco]

With a good raid leader, I am sure hardmodes are can be pugged on Arthas. There are a tonne of geared alts who don't make their guilds main raids.

[Panzerdin]

I doubt it. Quite a few hard modes require way too much coordination to drop in a random pug. I mean, Sarth+3 pre-zerg didn't get downed much in pugs, and a lot of hard modes are harder than that.

[Threatco]

What i mean is, there are so many geared alts of people WHO HAVE DONE THE FIGHT ON THEIR MAIN that you can pug hard modes with them, if you wanted too.

[Panzerdin]

Still not buying it. The fact that you know what needs to happen in a given hard mode doesn't mean everyone in your group can get it done.

[Threatco]

Sure it does.

I have carried many sub par guildies through GotUR in the past few weeks. Plus selling a drake to relativly newbie raider that had to be totaly carried. It's all up to the raid leader to explain what needs to be done. And up to the raiders to execute it. These achievements can be done with 2400 whr, a level of gear not hard to obtain. If it can be 9 manned. It can be pugged.

You don't need to be a genius, and you don't need to be that geared. You just need an organized raid leader, common sense, and some persistance to get the drake.

Anyways im just argueing to kill time, I don't know for sure how hard it would be to pug. I just suspect it's reasonably doable on my realm considering the bajillion applicants I get to my guild.

[Panzerdin]

I agree that you'll get the easier ones, I just don't think you'll be touching Freya, Mimiron or Yogg.

[Threatco]

freya is easy.

its not even in the same catagory as 1 light or firefighter.

Was and has always been a 1 shot no matter who i bring.

Now getting undieing in 1 run, that I admit would be neigh impossible. But firefighter and 1 light just take persistance. If you keep trying, you will keep getting better, and eventualy get it.

[Invisusira]

1 light is easier than 3 trees.

The main issue is communication. Not many pugs actually have everyone in vent together.

[Threatco]

lol i even make my pugs in VoA's get in vent.

I don't see how you can say that uld TEN freya hard mode is remotly hard. Or that it is comparable to 1 light.

Yogg is just a big mean nasty learning curve. Plus there is the whole significant DPS requirement to get brain in 2 phases and with all tenticles cleaned up.

freya? The abilities that hard mode adds are a total and complete joke. sunbeams, roots, and aoe damage/interupt.

I would say freya is the only hardmode to scale DOWN with difficulty. 2 knocks is harder then 3 because she uses her more painful abilities more frequently in phase 2.

I would say thorim hard at least is clearly harder to learn, execute, and in terms of gear check, then freya hard.

10 man of course.

[Invisusira]

Except in 10 man, 1 light is pretty much the same as 4. Only when you take Thor out does it start getting challenging.

[Threatco]

Did you saying one light in under 5 attempts with a group full of people who did not have the achievement yet?

[Invisusira]

I'm saying in general, 1 light is much easier to learn and execute than 3 trees, assuming people know the basic fight. If people are completely unfamiliar with the base fights, 3 trees would probably be easier.

Neither would be something I would ever pug.

[Threatco]

Your right. If your a pro at yogg normal then its not a big leap to 1 light.

But

1) Yogg normal is 10x harder then freya normal.
2) Freya hard is hardly any harder then normal, has almost no learning curve, except demanding my dps make a /target strengthen macro.
3) Yogg 1 light is a pain in the arse that continues to give me significant trouble because of the learning curve involved. Where as all the other fights are 1 shot even with half my raid never having done it before, firefighter was a 3 shot.

So either Yogg 1 light is significanly harder then the rest of the fights, or mabey I just suck at leading people through it

[Invisusira]

I was simply assuming everyone was familiar with the fights. Yes, learning Yogg is FAR more difficult than learning (?) Freya.

[fafhrd]

Still not buying it. The fact that you know what needs to happen in a given hard mode doesn't mean everyone in your group can get it done.

Hm.

4% wipe to yogg+0 (10) last night with a guy who's only killed yogg once - the only mistakes he made were dying in p1 to aoe a couple of times, (he's a rogue) and failing to leave the brain room fast enough once on another attempt (not sure if he'd ever been in the brain before since he got the visions achievement). He didn't even go insane from failing at things.

This was only our second time even getting to p3 on the fight, so it's not like we were carrying him through farm content, he was pulling his own weight while undergeared and inexperienced.

Good explanations can go a long way towards covering lack of experience.