[Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

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[Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Digren » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:03 am

I'm using dual spec for the first time as a healer on Hodir. I'm looking at the results of my healing from the Hodir attempts, and I'm disappointed. By the end of the night Sunday I felt I was in the swing of things, keeping my mana going for the entire fight and using all of my holy abilities. But when I look at the logs, I see that almost all of my healing was wasted.

Code: Select all
            WoW Webstats                                          WoW Meter Online
Date        Attempt  % Heal  Rank Heal   % Overheal   % Presence  % Out   Rank   EHPS   HPS   % Overheal   % Healing Time
6/21/2009   1        5       6           65           98          5.13     6     521    1470   64           39
6/21/2009   2        13      4           52           98          13.22    4     1786   3720   51           80
6/21/2009   3        8       5           57           100         7.94     5     1128   2602   56           63
6/28/2009   1        4       8           76           99          3.56     9     593    2422   75           70
6/28/2009   2        5       8           78           100         4.68     8     718    3246   77           79
6/28/2009   3        6       9           73           99          5.5      9     677    2544   73           61
6/28/2009   4        3       9           80           100         2.75     9     374    1881   80           42
6/28/2009   5        4       8           78           100         4.19     8     708    3149   77           80


June 21:
http://wowwebstats.com/dmer3nb6wfxng
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/774815

June 28:
http://wowwebstats.com/5adzawnhz3jv3
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/789363

Note the actual healing per second for some attempts, like the last one, is good (3149), but the effective healing is pitiful, with almost all of it wasted. I'm trying to figure out how to fix that.

Is the problem because healing assignments were all well covered without me? As an extra cog I can see that I wasn't really needed. =p But still, I should have been able to land heals on occasion. I mostly use Holy Light as I should, though due to the constant need for movement I was rarely able to benefit from the haste acceleration that repeated casts provide. Maybe I could have done more effective healing with Flash of Light, although total HPS would have been much less.

I guess I wanted my results to be similar to that of the second attempt on June 21. I still had very high overheal - 51% - but overall I pulled my weight that attempt as a healer. I didn't do so this past weekend.

How do I fix this?

Attempt 5 on June 28 was success, our first Hodir kill.

My gear is mostly Naxx and Ulduar 25, gemmed and enchanted, since we have zero holy paladins so me and one other prot and one ret get to take it all. I have a few awful pieces (neck, back) where they aren't unique to plate (so I can't get a purple) and still use quest blues.

I had bacon on myself and was assigned main tank healer for all attempts.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby GothicPL » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:11 am

Looks like your priest (Lelani) and druid (Forgiven) covered the tank pretty well. The shaman (Loganis) also helped with ES and occasional spot heals.
It seems that either you have too many healers on the tank, or your latency is not very good.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby kanst » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:05 am

Cut down on healers, and get used to it

As a holy pally your gonna overheal, its just how it works. This is how I like to think about holy pallies. Think about a carpenter who only owns a sledge hammer, and one of those little rock sculpting hammers. As a pally you dont have tools for all damge intakes so you throw what you got at it, if the tank doesnt die and your not oom who the hell cares about overheals
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Digren » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:59 pm

I don't usually have bad latency issues, though admittedly healing is probably more reactive than a tank rotation. I supposed I could plug a hard wire into my laptop sometime and see if it's faster than the wireless.

Given that I did decent raw HPS, perhaps I can convince them to assign one fewer healer to the boss next time. That might help keep more DPS alive longer and shorten the fight, without compromising on MT healing since I can pick up the gap.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Xfighter » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:38 am

With HL Spam, you're bound to have tons of overheal. More so when you have other healers on the same target. Most healers get hots, and shorter cast time heals off before you land your HL, but your HL will usually top the tank off that last little bit that wasn't covered. That's what you should expect with 10-15k+ heals being spammed, they all can't be effective healing ;P.

HL spam, from my experiences, should be about 50%, dependent on the fight of course.

I healed the first half of my guilds semi-pug/alt run of Naxx 25 today, and for the two wings we did, with me spamming mainly HL non-stop, I ended with about 5.5M Effective healing, and 5.7M or so Over healing (the two wings were construct & military)


Also, as a rule of thumb that I use, if you're off spec healing just because the fight doesn't require you to tank, then all you are is filler for the small gaps left by other healing classes, so you shouldn't get too disappointed in performance. Not much is expected from me as a healer, which works out good because sometimes my healing is mainly effective, and sometimes it's not. When it's not, all it means is other healers are doing their job properly.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby DanimalEQ » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:38 pm

kanst wrote:If the tank doesnt die and your not oom who the hell cares about overheals


Pretty much this. I'm a recent convert to Holy and struggled with this at times, since my only previous healing experience was some Kara runs on my priest.

Since I was mainly raid healing on my priest in the past, which was all reactive healing, I had a tank or two die on me before I caught on.

Now, for fights I don't know that well, I spam HL all day long. If I notice the tank hasn't taken some damage for a bit, I'll generally back off, plea, maybe get some melee swings in for SoW procs, and then resume the spamming.

Once I get to know the fights a bit better, then I slow down and heal when I know the damage is coming in (frozen blows on Hodir for instance).

My over healing is still sitting around the 60-65% mark, however. But I still end fights with a near full mana bar, and my tanks live, so in the end, that's all that matters.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Candiru » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:51 am

Overhealing keeps tanks alive when they fail to dodge.

Overhealing isn't a bad thing when you are tank healing (as long as you don't go oom)
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Bastien » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:43 pm

Xfighter wrote:Also, as a rule of thumb that I use, if you're off spec healing just because the fight doesn't require you to tank, then all you are is filler for the small gaps left by other healing classes, so you shouldn't get too disappointed in performance. Not much is expected from me as a healer, which works out good because sometimes my healing is mainly effective, and sometimes it's not. When it's not, all it means is other healers are doing their job properly.


This is why I offspec ret. I started out as a fulltime healer with my guild, and finally moved to tanking as main spec and healing offspec. I saw the same kinds of healing numbers as the OP. I usually ended up just FoL'ing to top off the raid and lolshockadin dps. I offspec'd ret in our 10-man for 1tank fights (mainly Vezax) and found it brought much more raid utility since the heals core was pretty much set.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby fafhrd » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:14 pm

Digren wrote:Given that I did decent raw HPS, perhaps I can convince them to assign one fewer healer to the boss next time. That might help keep more DPS alive longer and shorten the fight, without compromising on MT healing since I can pick up the gap.


If you've got people doing 80% overheal on the single tank while DPS are actually dying on a fight like hodir (where no one should be dying unless they themselves screw up badly) then it definitely sounds like more of the healing should be going to the raid instead of the tank.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Constantíne » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:04 pm

My main is a Resto Shaman healing through Uld right now, so I feel your pain (well not really, but I do understand.) I know that as a healer, you want to make sure that you're doing your part, and sometimes that's hard to quantify.

A 'smart' heal is a spell that only heals when the target is hurt. All of the other healing classes have at least one 'smart' heal. Shams have chain heal, holy priests have CoH and PoM, Disc has bubbles and PoM, and ALL HoTs are 'smart.' Because of the nature of paladin healing you're going to have alot of overhealing because all of your heals are, for lack of a better word, dumb.

If you plan to heal on your pally for a while, you will get used to it. If I had one piece of advice for you it would be this:

STOP LOOKING AT THE HEALING METER
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby blakk » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:01 am

If you heal as holy you will overheal at least 40% it's just how the cookie crubles. healing nax with just two healers and my overhealing is still well over 50% even without HL spam and i end the longest mana sponge fights with more than half my mana left and i'm the only one healing the tanks. any time a tank avoids you automatically overheal and tank avoidance sits at 45% plus so it's pretty much begging for you to overheal.
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Medvih2 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:04 am

Well basicly ive comed to figure that over 2k healing is basicly overhealing, so i just keep it plain at 2k healing bonus and dont watch the meter, so where abouts when i reach 2k healing, i just stack intellect. atm i'm on 1990 healing, tho 10 points don't matter that much.

What i'm trying to say, abit less healing bonus, and a larger manapool would maybe help your worries
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby Kiorken » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:25 am

I actually have the benefit of having awesome raid healers, and awesome tank healers, but my Pally's most requested spec is Holy. Because of the way our guild is set up, to avoid overhealing, I specced, and geared for FoL spam, and quicker Holy Shock. I just beacon the tank, and top off the dps, and it works out really well. While we don't have hots, it makes a difference to shield the tank, put a hot on him, beacon him, and heal the raid AoE damage. A lot of people will tell you that FoL spam isn't viable anymore, but thats not the case. We still scale well with pure intellect and crit, because even nerfed, our mana conservation is second to none. With enough SP, FoL spam can, and is viable.

One more thing for me, because of raid top off, I usually stay on the boss/trash mobs with SoW, and use HEALBOT to cast with my mouse. Makes a huge difference, you can see when someone is about to take damage, and start FoL immediately. Meleeing while using SoW, and lolshieldbash and consecrate, adds about 600 dps to the raid, and you can use HEALBOT to heal without targetting anyone.

This is not recommended if you are designated as the guild tank healer though.

If you have the FoL spam build, its easy to heal heroics too
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Re: [Holy PVE] Overhealing - how can I fix it?

Postby kanst » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:39 am

In a 25 man raid, the pallies job is to keep the tank alive first, then to heal as much as possible second. Pallies right now are FANTASTIC healers. With proper beacon and sacred shield use its easy to put out some awesome healing numbers. That being said, you will overheal. There is 0 you can do to stop it. If your under 40% overheal then your not doing enough. If your over 70% overheal you have too many healers or you suck. One of the things me and the other guild leaders have had to learn to do in wrath is take as few healers as possible. Most fights can be healed with 5 healers. And as you cut down on healers each person becomes more clear exactly what their job is.

Holy is my off offspec, so I dont do it often the last time I did was Colliseum hard:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/z2HIP0KG ... alingDone/

As you can see its not hard to be right in the thick of the other healers, but your going to overheal. 55% overheal is no big deal, if the tank didnt die and you put out a lot of healing then you did your job
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