[Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

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[Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:42 pm

I've seen Joanadark and others mention that people in their guild are regularling pulling 7k, 8k on single-target straightforward burn fights. How can I get there from here?

I finally have a recent log since I've upgraded some gear:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hX6s ... 423&e=2620
(My armory is, sadly, in tank gear at the moment. I will have a DMC:Greatness this weekend, but that's about the only upgrade I'll see for a while.)

This was from a certification run last night that we use to guage peoples' alt of offspec dps/tanknig/healing. Short overview is:
Patches: 6k
Grobbulus: 4k
Gluth: 4.7k
Noth: 4.5k
Heigan: 4.1k (would have been a small bit higher if we'd not deliberately done slow dances, I expect)
Anub: 4.8k
Faerlina: 4.3k

  • My FCFS priority is HoW > CS > Judge > DS > Cons > Exo; I find that DS gets delayed FREQUENTLY by a CS,Judge combo. Is this bad? Is there something I can do to delay it less, or is this normal?
  • I'm glyphed for SoV, Cons, and Judgement.
  • I tried to use Wings and my on-use trinket (which is crappy) pretty much on cooldown for these fights, since our raid doesn't burn heroism right away.

Do you guys have any tips on How To Do It Better? I'm doing well for my guild, and then I see app templates for places that say, "Bring your 7k dps", and wonder at the missing steps between where I am and that. (I wish I had logged out in ret gear, so my armory would be inspectable. Sorry.)
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:50 pm

Can i please have your amory
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Xfighter » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:51 pm

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... al&n=Berak

^Is his armory, but as he said, it's of no help for now.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Sagedin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:59 am

Kelaan wrote:I've seen Joanadark and others mention that people in their guild are regularling pulling 7k, 8k on single-target straightforward burn fights. How can I get there from here?


Getting over 7k on "single target" bosses that do not die within 3 minutes (or have insane buff increases) is something I don't see paladins doing in Ulduar gear. The only boss I can go over 7k reliably is Kologarn (well and Hodir). Single target bosses I normally sit between 5.5k and 6.5k depending on RNG and movement. You can check my armory to see how your gear compares to mine.

Looking at your armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hyjal&n=Kelaan it looks like most likely you are in a mix off ilvl 219/226 ret gear with 232 weapon? If so, I think your dps is pretty much where it should be.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby kanst » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:02 am

The short answer is gear, darkmoon card is a good start. That trinket is a big dps upgrade. But whenever someone talks about doing 7k dps look at thier gear and compare it to yours. If their weapon is 20 dps higher thats a huge difference. Your dps is right around where I would expect it at your gear level. Are you using max consumables? Do you use haste pots, are you flasked, do you get a food buff. All these little things also add up.

Some of these mages who are pulling 8k dps numbers spend most of the day spamming trade trying to buy flame caps, because every little bit of extra dps helps
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:09 am

What if they do 7.5k dps in 10 mans with IRONSOUL because they can't win a roll on a weapon to save their life?
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Sagedin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:45 am

andx wrote:What if they do 7.5k dps in 10 mans with IRONSOUL because they can't win a roll on a weapon to save their life?


Then they are lying. Show me a report or I really don't believe you. We're talking dps on the boss here, and paladins with BiS gear are not even doing that. I think that on Algalon (basic tank and spank) the best of the best retribution paladins are doing high 6k dps. I call BS on your statement, and dare you to prove me different.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:51 am

Sagedin wrote:
andx wrote:What if they do 7.5k dps in 10 mans with IRONSOUL because they can't win a roll on a weapon to save their life?


Then they are lying. Show me a report or I really don't believe you. We're talking dps on the boss here, and paladins with BiS gear are not even doing that. I think that on Algalon (basic tank and spank) the best of the best retribution paladins are doing high 6k dps. I call BS on your statement, and dare you to prove me different.

kk I'll post one when i get home. Patchwerk work for you?
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:03 am

andx wrote:
Sagedin wrote:
andx wrote:What if they do 7.5k dps in 10 mans with IRONSOUL because they can't win a roll on a weapon to save their life?


Then they are lying. Show me a report or I really don't believe you. We're talking dps on the boss here, and paladins with BiS gear are not even doing that. I think that on Algalon (basic tank and spank) the best of the best retribution paladins are doing high 6k dps. I call BS on your statement, and dare you to prove me different.

kk I'll post one when i get home. Patchwerk work for you?

Also going to throw this out there. Its not me. Its one of my guildies.
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Sagedin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am

Haven't done Patchwork the last couple of months, but doesn't that fight take less then 2 minutes? Meaning you have an uptime of bloodlust+speed pot of over 50%? Haven't done patchwork in months so no idea what dps on it looks like with current gear levels.

If you have a parse of Algalon I would be completely happy :). But if not one of Lord Jaraxxus will do.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:02 am

Sagedin wrote:Haven't done Patchwork the last couple of months, but doesn't that fight take less then 2 minutes? Meaning you have an uptime of bloodlust+speed pot of over 50%? Haven't done patchwork in months so no idea what dps on it looks like with current gear levels.

If you have a parse of Algalon I would be completely happy :). But if not one of Lord Jaraxxus will do.

Unfortunately this dude didn't get in on our most recent algalon run, I'm not sure if he got in on jaraxxas but I do know that he's lost world carver to me, asir's edge to a DK, and most recently Dual-blade Butcher to me, I feel bad for the kid. he did win a bunch of other stuff from our ToC 10 and 25 runs.
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:28 am

Xfighter wrote:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hyjal&n=Berak

^Is his armory, but as he said, it's of no help for now.


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... l&n=Kelaan

Erk ... Kelaan, not Berak.

I'll try to get on tonight to log to my ret gear. :) Have some company over so haven't been able to get to the PC.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:34 am

Sagedin wrote:Haven't done Patchwork the last couple of months, but doesn't that fight take less then 2 minutes? Meaning you have an uptime of bloodlust+speed pot of over 50%? Haven't done patchwork in months so no idea what dps on it looks like with current gear levels.

If you have a parse of Algalon I would be completely happy :). But if not one of Lord Jaraxxus will do.


Since my primary role is a tank, I don't get to DPS on Jaraxxus or any progression content that needs more than one tank. (Which is OK, I loves the tanking!) I DPSed our U10 XT hardmode kill, but don't have a log. The Naxx run was a "certification" run, where we take people who are learning new roles, or want to bring alts... and we generally save Heroism for the end of Patches (much to my chagrin, I'd love it at the start!). Good point on the proportion of Heroism uptime, though; that explains the numeric differences a lot. We'll have an Algalon parse as soon as we get there, but I may end up tanking it. ;)

Do you save Wings for heroism? I generally do if I know it will be early, but otherwise prefer 2x Wings to 1x (Wings + Heroism). Thanks for the reminder about a speed potions; I normally don't use them. [Ah! And I remember that I hadn't flasked. That would've been a little better.]
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby Sagedin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:57 am

Two times AW is better then saving it for BL.

My guild used to keep BL for the end of bosses as well, but after some discussion they conceded to using it at the start of bosses (at least those that not need a dps boost in another phase).

@ Andx: the reason I want to see a log is because you make a blanket statement of doing high 7k damage in 10 mans. If you look at for example wowmeteronline:

- Coliseum: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/dps/8/0/1/320, there is only one fights where paladins do more then 7k damage and it uses +damage multipliers
- Ulduar: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/dps/7/0/1/320, only on Kologarn and Hodir did paladins do more then 7k dps.

I will certainly admit that wowmeteronline is not conclusive, but it makes me sceptical when someone claims to do high 7k dps with Ironsoul.
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Re: [Ret] How can I reach the 5k or 6k mark?

Postby andx » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:06 am

Sagedin wrote:I will certainly admit that wowmeteronline is not conclusive, but it makes me sceptical when someone claims to do high 7k dps with Ironsoul.


Agreed. I didn't believe it at first either. I didn't want to. It just kind of pissed me off. I'm pulling around 7.5k on average with Dual blade butcher and a nice gear set. On average we run with : 1prot pally (me ususally) 1 ret pally (this dude) disc priest Enhance shammy 2 resto druids (ocasionally 1 balance 1 resto for tastey boomkin aura) 1 hunter 1rogue 2 DK's (1 tank 1 dps) So as far as buffs our retadin recieves:
Might
Kings
Abominations might
Improved Windfury
Horn of Winter
Leader of the pack
Sanctified retribution
Arcane intellect via alt mage that stands outside and buffs us when needed
Moonkin aura
Mark of the wild
Blood lust @ 20% for hammer throwing madness
heart of The crusader
endless rage flask
fish feast or str food

On Mob
Expose Armor
Faerie fire
ebon plague bringer
as well as the usual pally stuffs but those are the main ones

so we run a pretty wide variety of people to ensure good synergy. Also our tanking dk will give the ret pally Hysteria when the wings go up so he gets a big boost from that i think.

I'm still at work so i'll try to post up something tonight.
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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