[Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby fafhrd » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:24 pm

d503 wrote:The only problem we've had are DPS related. We are killing Snobolds right now as they come out, and it's potentially slowing down DPS a bit. Without BL, we make it to about 20% when the worms arrive, which is not doable, since the druid has to solo tank Gormok once the worms come out.

With bloodlust we make it to 5%, and easily kill him and are prepared for the worms. The attempt where we did this, we got acidmaw down, but had a good 80% left on Dreadscale by the time Icehowl came out.



You might try killing fewer snobolds. We had a horrible lag-ridden night of minimal progress through P2, but we're generally ignoring snobolds that aren't on healers in P1 - if they're on melee/hunters all they do is stun or daze you now and then, and hit for about 1700 on mail (probably a lot less on plate - one of our tanks had one on her all of p1 and 30% of a worm's health on p2). They kinda shut down DPS casters, but we figured the loss isn't any worse than having everyone switch off the boss to kill a snobold on a DPS either. Basically we went from having Gormok at about 25% when the worms come last night while killing all snobolds to having gormok dead and time to kill a snobold or two (and healers to recover, raid to resposition, dots to fall off) before worms spawn today without killing more than 1 snobold. The most we can manage and still avoid having gormok up during worms seems to be 3 healer snobolds.

This is without bloodlust, we're saving that for p2 since we have a lot more trouble getting through that with people not dying to poison/bile.

Any that we're going to kill we drag right on top of melee - they don't get hit by aoe, but melee and hunters that are killing them can still aoe and hit the boss, since he does get hit by aoe.

People whose snobolds aren't being killed need to be careful not to stand near casters though, since they will interrupt casts on people around you too.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby d503 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:34 pm

fafhrd wrote:
d503 wrote:The only problem we've had are DPS related. We are killing Snobolds right now as they come out, and it's potentially slowing down DPS a bit. Without BL, we make it to about 20% when the worms arrive, which is not doable, since the druid has to solo tank Gormok once the worms come out.

With bloodlust we make it to 5%, and easily kill him and are prepared for the worms. The attempt where we did this, we got acidmaw down, but had a good 80% left on Dreadscale by the time Icehowl came out.



You might try killing fewer snobolds. We had a horrible lag-ridden night of minimal progress through P2, but we're generally ignoring snobolds that aren't on healers in P1 - if they're on melee/hunters all they do is stun or daze you now and then, and hit for about 1700 on mail (probably a lot less on plate - one of our tanks had one on her all of p1 and 30% of a worm's health on p2). They kinda shut down DPS casters, but we figured the loss isn't any worse than having everyone switch off the boss to kill a snobold on a DPS either. Basically we went from having Gormok at about 25% when the worms come last night while killing all snobolds to having gormok dead and time to kill a snobold or two (and healers to recover, raid to resposition, dots to fall off) before worms spawn today without killing more than 1 snobold. The most we can manage and still avoid having gormok up during worms seems to be 3 healer snobolds.

This is without bloodlust, we're saving that for p2 since we have a lot more trouble getting through that with people not dying to poison/bile.

Any that we're going to kill we drag right on top of melee - they don't get hit by aoe, but melee and hunters that are killing them can still aoe and hit the boss, since he does get hit by aoe.

People whose snobolds aren't being killed need to be careful not to stand near casters though, since they will interrupt casts on people around you too.


I definitely planned on perhaps doing this, where we prioritized snobolds on healers and certain others instead of killing them all. One thing we did was have the snobolded person make sure they ran into melee, underneath his Gormok's junk, so the incidental dmg from melee would contribute...that helped a bit.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Joanadark » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:37 pm

Cleared Beasts through Faction Champions tonite on hard mode 25.
Beasts took 4 tries, and Jeraxxus and Champions were both one-shots. Key to beasts was handleing p2 correctly. I'll write some more specifics tomorrow cause im tired.

We're now working on Twins, with 44 attempts remaining.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Boèndal » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:47 am

How are you handling the wormphase? Killing both simultaneously or Acidmaw first? Our 25s strat and our 10s kill was dpsing both but i've read somewhere that people are killing Acidmaw first to avoid the whole poison > fire story. Is 25s worm enrage manageable or does ae and tank dmg increasing to much?
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Enkal » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:29 am

We did 10 man heroic mode last night, wiped like 10 times on the beasts but on thing I noticed, the third boss (Icehowl) always enraged after his third charge, no exceptions. So you have to get him down by then, this means for our 10 man group that noone is allowed to fail the strafe game. And they did... :(

Other than that, Gormok we taunted at 2 stacks, it's timed so that you never have more than 2 stacks if you do it like that.
Worms we killed Acidmaw first and then Dreadscale, the enrage wasnt that bad.

I had to log after that but it seems the team got another tank in and took down Jaraxxus and Faction Champions in 40 minutes or so. To me it seems the northrend beasts is much harder than the next 2 bosses.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby fafhrd » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:24 am

d503 wrote:One thing we did was have the snobolded person make sure they ran into melee, underneath his Gormok's junk, so the incidental dmg from melee would contribute...that helped a bit.


There isn't much incidental damage that will hit them though, they don't get hit by most (all?) aoes. If you target them then cast your cleave/whirlwind/hearthstrike/multishot at them though, they'll get hit by it and Gormok will get hit by the aoe portion of it.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Funtodin » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:26 am

I'm curious about how people are dealing with burning bile and paralytic poison, while having clouds in a safe zone. I usually engage Dreadscale and as soon as he spits burning bile on me we have the other tank taunt off and run Dreadscale north, then I run to the south side and remove poison from melee and random ppl when they get it and move forward to me. I'm wondering though what's the best approach to overall raid positioning... everyone spread out or assign small groups of 3-4 being clumped up? More than 4 ppl getting a burning bile/poison seems to cause random deaths frequently and it's been the major cause of wipes.
We've tried having small assigned groups when Dreadscale is moving and all raid spread out for when Acidmaw is moving, because too many ppl hit by burning bile seems to be a lot worse than lots of poison, as the aoe fire is ridiculously high.

As the "burning bile'd" tank, I noticed it fades before they burrow and as so, I need to either go back to Dreadscale "refresh" bile or have a 2nd tank switch on him. It's not so quickly done because we have Dreadscale north, dropping his clouds there while I'm south cleansing people. We have melee position in such a way that the knockback throws them my way and not into clouds or the rest of the ranged/healers.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby smeej » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:02 am

Is the speed bonus you get when Icehowl charges gone/lessened? Also, he appears to be immune to de-enrage if he kills someone with his charge?

Oh, and Gormok might be immune to disarm.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby kanst » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 am

smeej wrote:Is the speed bonus you get when Icehowl charges gone/lessened? Also, he appears to be immune to de-enrage if he kills someone with his charge?

Oh, and Gormok might be immune to disarm.


No speed bonus, dont know about tranq shot, and Gormok is immune to disarm
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Funtodin » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am

smeej wrote:Is the speed bonus you get when Icehowl charges gone/lessened? Also, he appears to be immune to de-enrage if he kills someone with his charge?

Oh, and Gormok might be immune to disarm.


There's no speed boost in heroic, but honestly it's still easy. I could move out and back into him to hit the boss and prevent my divine plea from fading.
Immune to de-enrage and immunte to taunt, so dps needs to pay attention, as the tank wastes around 30% of his time being frozen or knocked back and not building threat.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Belloc » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:33 am

I still hate that I need to explain this to my 25-man normal mode group, but the key to avoiding the charges is to watch two obvious things.

First, watch the raid announcement that shows who he is targeting. If he's facing your direction and it says he's targeting Joesmurf, who is to your left... run to your right!

Second, watch the stun debuff on your debuff bar. As soon as it hits 0, start spamming your movement key in the direction that you need to run.

We've got a healer who gets hit by this shit all of the time and it is pissing me off to no end. He's a great player and I want him in every single one of my raids, but I'm going to have to explain these two rules next time we run this.

Also, I expect heroic beasts on 10-man to be much easier next week when I add some of this new info into our strat.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Ulrik » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:36 am

Idk, we blew like 18 attempts on Beasts(25) with little luck. DK is so squishy that we're doing a 3-3-1 impale rotation (myself, druid, dk) it works allright. We stretch out the duration of the druid's second tank phase until Gormok is dead. Bubble and BOP him and myself for Worms. We ignore adds unless they're on healers. Our best efforts get him dead as the worms come.

We're trying to do a 1-2 tank setup on worms to distribute the bile but it's messy as hell. We're starting off tanking both where they start which leaves Dreadmaw tanks kinda backed up against the wall. Bring him East more (towards the entrance)? Then the taunts get behind and our new bile buff has less then 10 sec to run out and find people (who now apparently refuse to help us feeling it's all up to us to get to them...) Best attempts are 2nd worm at 30% when Icehowl enters. One other thing we found, or bugged, is if the first worm dies right during a switch the enrage doesn't trigger. Not that it's really that bad anyway.

Icehowl is probably the simplest of all three. Massive spikes when he stuns and you need to really ramp up dps. Stupidest thing was I still got hit during a charge. PoJ, both mouse buttons down (which is still defaulted to run) and 'W' with the camera facing straight right, and still easily hit me. This may sound dumb but is he always dead center on you so left/right shouldn't matter? To me that's the most annoying thing about the whole night. I assumed it would be trivial with PoJ to avoid. I don't understand how that movement went so slow.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Petrus » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:27 am

I ended up healing because I have to show up late on Wednesdays and one of our Holy paladins DC'd.

Good GOD that fight is nasty on tank damage. I was rotating beacons the whole time and ended up with 5K HPS or something like that.

It's also abundantly clear to me that I should be tanking because I can take a 3 or 4 stack and bubble it off while using Hand of Protection on another tank and the other Holy paladin Handing the third tank and then we're all clear of debuffs after Gormok. As it stands right now we can only get rid of two and that just isn't enough (plus our tanks often aren't living through P1 even blowing CDs and me very literally spamming holy light with wings up, which tells me they need more gear).
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Funtodin » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:21 pm

We've had the worms despawn on us twice, wasting 2 attempts... gg testing.
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Re: [Northrend Beasts] Preperation for HEROIC/HM Boss #1

Postby Arianne » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:08 pm

So, snobolds spawn every 20s and there are 5 in heroic mode.
Each one gives him a 15% buff. I'm confused as to whether or not killing the snobold gets rid of the 15% or if there are two 15% buffs per snobold (1 rising anger and 1 buff that's active when a snobold is active).

Impale happens every 10s and lasts for 45 seconds. It does 4.5k/2s per stack. Impale itself does how much damage base?

What I'm trying to figure out is when tanks have to start using cooldowns on impale switches.

10: Impale 1 - Tank 1
20: Impale 2 - Tank 1 (Snobold 1) - 15% damage buff
30: Impale 3 - Tank 1 (Pain Suppression)
40: Impale 4 - Tank 1 (Snobold 2) - 15% damage buff (30% total)
50: Impale 5 - Tank 2 (HoP Tank 1)
60: Impale 6 - Tank 2 (HoS/DS from pally healer) (Snobold 3) - 15% damage buff (45% total)
70: Impale 7 - Tank 2
80: Impale 8 - Tank 3 (HoP Tank 2)(Snobold 4) - 15% damage buff (60% total)
90: Impale 9 - Tank 3
100: Impale 10 - Tank 1 (HoP Tank 3) (tank 1 cooldown before taunt/impale) (Snobold 5) - 15% damage buff (75% total)
110: Impale 11 - Tank 1
120: Impale 12 - Tank 2 (tank 2 cooldown before taunt/impale)
130: Impale 13 - Tank 2
140: Impale 14 - Tank 3 (tank 3 cooldown before taunt/impale)
150: Impale 15 - Tank 3

Theoretically given that impales are 10s apart and tank cooldowns are 12s, if you hit it correctly you should have your cooldown still active for the second impale.

Snobolds have 539k health in heroic? Therefore I need 6 DPSers at 5k DPS to kill the snobold before the next one comes out?
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