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[10] Ulduar order or progression?

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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby gokuson » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:09 am

Right now our 10 man core group can clear all of antechamber and all of IC in one shot. However we can't seem to be able to beat a single keeper, we tried twice with Hodir, but no luck, and last friday we lost people to DC's on thorim during our 3 attempts. Worse, is that we can only really raid one day of the week, so we only have one chance to clear bosses. do you guys think it would be good to skip IC, Razor, and ignis and go straight towads thorim (our best attempt we got him to 90k hp with a dps dying at the begining)?

I think leaving those 3 optional bosses up would boost our off day attendance since we can get people to help out and get some loot off the easy bosses.

dps wise, we have enough to kill xt's heart with bloodlust, but we didnt' want to enter hard mode so we back at 10%. and again we are able to 1 shoot every boss up to the keepers. also, do you guys recomend that we try doing steelbreaker hard mode, or should we be focusing on clearing UD first? thanks
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isababe » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:46 am

just as a starter, i found a really good group of 7 others. me my roomate and an IRL friend of ours are both tanks and a healer.

we have a couple friends from online, like halo/met on warcraft. we pugged 5 dps last week, and managed Freya/hodir with all but myself and a pugged hunter(who is in my guild now) having seen both fights.

it went in this order one shots all around:(two healed it all around)

FL
Razor
Ignis
XT
IC
Kolo
Auriaya
Hodir(3 shot, people didnt understand flash freeze at first)
Freya

the next night, we killed thorim(arena healer died) two shot and had some attempts on mimiron where the "new" pugs we had to pick up failed us hardcore... Dieing to shock blast, and lazer barrage specifically.

this week, it was a full guild run. cleared all one shot minus mimiron because we had to rework our strategy for "idiot" ranged(especially our boomkin who is healing for this fight for now).


but to answer your question Gokuson, i would say find out the weakness/strengths of your group. for instance, if there is a fight where i can tell people what to do(while MTing mind you) they listen and do their job. but on fights where i have to pay attention fully to my OWN job(specifically mimiron/thorim) they end up messing up horribly - like yogg tonight, we failed hardcore on every aspect of Phase 2. if you guys have decent coordinated DPS i would say try Thorim, he was basically the least stressful/easiest boss for us to kill as a group. we had hardmode this week(second time seeing him), but after the second gaunt boss died i had to wait until sif ran away.... not ready and the group isnt set up properly for the hardmode(nor do my raiders know the fight).

Thorim gives shoulders, go for him and make sure people know their own respective roles on fights. ask questions of your DPS/healers and see if they understand their overall roles. its worked thus far for me.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:30 am

So far, my guild has done:

FL
Razorscale
XT
Kologarn
IC
Auriaya
Hodir
Igniss
Thorim
Freya


In that order. To date, we can 1-shot FL, Raz, XT, Kolo, IC, Auriaya, Igniss, Thorim

Freya and Hodir have not been 1-shotted yet. Mimiron.........I don't even want to talk about :(
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Salamandra » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:20 am

we tried twice with Hodir


Why are you only trying a boss twice? I would expect more like 20 attempts, not 2. Have more goes.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:07 am

It took us 8 wipes in a row for Hodir.

Since then he's been cake actually. I'm not sure why, we wiped 3 times, I made everyone watch the Tankspot video, during the raid, we tabbed back in, 5 more goes, then attempt 9 was a win.

Since then, it's been 2-3 attempts each time.

I'm thinking our next lockout he will be 1-shot, that's my hope anyway. People know to be alert for that fight, and move on time, and share the buffs, etc.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Corpsicle » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Isetnefret, you might give Mimiron a few shots. Watch the tankspot videos and make sure you know exactly what each phase offers in the way of Instant Death abilities and how you will handle them (spreading out, getting out of targetting circles, run away from shockblast, tank/healer cooldowns in specific order for phase 1 plasma blast, etc). Mimiron is a bit of a gear check, but mostly a coordination check. Can you coordinate tank cooldowns and can your healers keep more than 1 target alive to high damage? Can your raid spread out and move from Bad Stuff? If so, you can do phase 1 and 2. Can you handle picking up a lot of adds with one tank, soaking bombs with another, while a dps 'tanks' the aerial unit? Can your healers manage to coordinate healing to raid and multiple tanks? If so, you can do phase 3. If you can do phases 1 to 3, 4 is just 'everything at once.' Its a bit overwhelming, but once you get the hang of it the fight becomes fairly easily repeatable.

I'd encourage you to try it a few times. If your raid can handle coordination for thorim, freya, and hodir then I'd think you can handle Mimiron.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Threatco » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:42 pm

Post nerf I modify my list.

I Put a relative number between each rank to indicate the degree of difference in difficulty, from [0] Insignificant difference. To [5] Large difference. Going top to bottom. I also notate what about it makes it difficult compared to previous fights. You are likely to spend more time wiping to progress on a [3] then you would on a [1]. Relativly.

1 ) Flame Lev (skill/positioning check)

[10]

2 ) Razorscale (skill/positioning/ first gear check)

[1]

3 ) XT (skill/positioning check)

[1]

4 ) Kologarn (dps check)

[0]

5 ) Ignis (tank/healer check)

[2]

6 ) Iron Council (skill check)

[2]

7 ) Auriaya (tank/healer/skill/position check)

[3]

8 ) Hodir (healer/skill/position check)

[0]

9 ) Thorim (raid comp/positioning/skill check)

[2]

10 ) Freya (skill/tank/healer/dps check)

[1]

11 ) Mimiron (skill/healing/position/dps check)

[0]

12 ) General (raid comp/ranged dps skill check)

[3]

13 ) XT [Hard mode] (dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)

[0]

14 ) Flame Lev [Hard mode] (skill/gear check)

[0]

15 ) Iron Council [Hard mode] (dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)

[1]

16 ) Hodir [Hard mode] (dps check)

[1]

17 ) General [Hard mode] (raid comp/dps/healer/ranged dps skill check)

[3]

18 ) Yogg Saron (raid comp/skill check)

[0]

19 ) Thorim [Hard mode] (raid comp/dps/position/tank/healer check)

[2]

20 ) Freya [Hard mode] (dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)

[3]

21 ) Yogg Saron [Hard mode] (raid comp/dps/skill/position/tank check)

[3]

22 ) Mimiron [Hard mode] (raid comp/dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)

[3]

23 ) Algalon (timer/dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)

[5]

24 ) Alone in the darkness (raid comp/dps/skill/position/tank/healer check)
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:37 pm

We got Mim to phase 4 when our raid ran out of time. This week should be a win.

We've decided to shorten the time limit allotted to Ulduar to spend some more time in ToC, which puts the pressure on everyone to one-shot every boss prior to Freya and Mim, or else we will keep running out of time.

Right now, I've made the decision that if we need to extend the lock-out to have more attempts at Mimiron, then we also probably need the drops from all the previous bosses, to get more people upgraded to that level, so would be better served not extending the lockout.

When we start sharding the majority of drops, then I would consider extending the lockout. Does this sound like good reasoning, or do you think more attempts is better than more upgrades?
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Threatco » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:59 pm

I woulden't extend lockouts for normal mdoe progression, if that is what you mean.

Start working on FL/XT/Iron council hardmode. They are about as hard as learning normal mimiron.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:04 pm

We can do FL hard mode, and I think this week we're going to do our first attempt at XT hard mode.


For 10 man, does IC hard mode require 3 tanks?
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Corpsicle » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:24 pm

No, it doesn't. We use two tanks and two healers, making sure to have one dps class that can do a mortal strike on Steelbreaker for the last phase. We do Runebreaker first, then the little guy, then Steelbreaker. On pull, I pick up both Runemaster and Steelbreaker while our DK picks up the little guy. I have to focus Steelbreaker while keeping threat on Runebreaker so I can be sure to see fusion punch and get the self cleanse off fast enough. Also, you have to be fast on your feet and move Steelbreaker out of the blue power up runes - a fusion punch cast from one of those will likely kill you.

Its pretty easy, and we've been doing IC this way for a fairly longish time now. I've never had issues tanking both these two at the same time since we started Ulduar when it came out and normal mode was hard for us :)
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:28 pm

If I'm to understand it correctly though, your tank WILL die in the last phase, and you will go through possible 3 tank deaths?

Which means we can't do hard mode without druids or warlocks, which means we are in trouble, as both of those classes are not plentiful for us.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Threatco » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:48 pm

IC hard mode was our first hardmode, even before FL.

It's a 2 tank fight. Stormcaller doesnt need one. And steelbreaker will only kill 1 tank during the fight.

Phase 1. Kill Runemaster. ignore/avoid stormcaller.

Phase 2. Kill storm caller. interupt stormcallers new ability. Spread out as steelbreaker casts a debuff on people that increase the damage they take, and it will put the debuff on anyone within 10 yards when it's put on.

Phase 3. Kill steel breaker. You have an entire *60* seconds before you the tank are killed. Have 7 people stack under the boss, 3 people at range and spread out (same kind of thing as before, will only target range if at least 3 are at range). When you have ~10 seconds left before you die (steel breaker at about 30%), have the other tank taunt, you run out of group. win. Only 1 tank dies during the fight. The 2nd tank dies ofter the fight is over.

Very easy.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Belarkan » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:47 am

I only had one try on IC HM on 10 before this summer.

We failed because we hadn't the time to do several attempts (only 2 tries, once leaving steelbreaker around 10% when I died then it turned into a wipe).
Our strat was a bit different than the above. The general idea is to wait for the runemaster to pop a power rune outside death ones and finish him. Then let steelbreaker be near the rune and nuke him hard.
We have little to no issue with healers but our dps aren't that good.
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Re: [10] Ulduar order or progression?

Postby Isetnefret » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:43 am

Our progression issue is going to be getting our best DPS in the same raid.

Our policy doesn't play favorites and raid sign-ups are FCFS. While we have performance requirements to be allowed to sign up, they are forgiving enough that a couple people just barely meeting them will put the raid out of reach for hard modes.

On the other hand, we do have enough people over the 4000 dps mark (10 mans) to fill out all DPS slots with them.
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