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[Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Perrigrin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:45 am

So, I recently started raiding 25 man as Ret, got a semi decent pre-raid + some raid gear set (armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Perrigrin - I got quite a bit of gear in bags to swap around, but what's on me is what I seem to be highest DPS with using RAWR) - And I'm happy to say that I can quite often end up at the upper half of dps/damage done - comparing myself to dps classes who has moths of downing ulduar 25 bosses (and getting loot) under their belt.

However, I find our 2 dps warriors almost untouchable in pure burst dps - And last night, we had a main change from lock->DK join us for dps - And I definitely out-gear him, yet he easily equaled my dps or even, more often than not out-dps'd me by a good bit.

I run a decent FCFS rotation with the right prios, and believe I put out a decent dps (would say I average slightly over 4k, some fights lower some fights higher). I however don't bother swapping libram and seal between thrash and longer fights - I go for the long fight setup all the time.

So I guess my question is: Is it normal that a DK in lower gear levels out-dps me, how well does a retn0b stack up? Just curious to see what I need to aim for ;)

This post (not sure how current) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7765&sid=1 - Ranks pallies quite low, but on the other hand they rank warriors lower - and on alot of fights our 2 dps warriors are top dps. So not sure how valid that is.

Share your experiences please.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Magnusharkov » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:16 am

I'm happy with where we are these days. I find I sit at a very similar level to well geared DKs and Warriors and only slightly below rogues. Obviously some fights are better than others for Ret.

For reference I can link the logs for my last 2 raids. Unfortunately I was tanking on Razor, Yogg, Ignis and Council so my overall dps is a little low, particularly on the 2nd one. But we are definitely competitive.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ghBe ... amageDone/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/LRkn ... amageDone/

Also the other day we did a 10 man hard mode ulduar run up to firefighter. My overall damage done was by far the top with a good 2 or 3% lead over 2nd spot of a rogue. I wouldn't worry that ret is fundamentally gimped at the moment.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... gnusharkov
Last edited by Magnusharkov on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Sagedin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:19 am

After doing a second hour of Algalon attempts on 25 man, I believe our single target dps is very good as long as our downtime is low enough. I was consistantly in the top 4.

For fights with adds/lots of movement/times vengeance falls off our dps takes a nasty dive compared to the other classes. I was on the lower end on our Firefighter kills, which I think is one of the fights that least favors our new style of dps. But the gap between the lower end and the middle was only small (couple percent). Overall I believe we are currently balanced very nicely.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Perrigrin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:21 am

So ... what you're saying is that I should be able to do at least the same dps as a similarly geared DK on encounters like say General?
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Magnusharkov » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:25 am

Perrigrin wrote:So ... what you're saying is that I should be able to do at least the same dps as a similarly geared DK on encounters like say General?


On our last general kill the melee stacked up like this:

Dual wield frost DK 5537
Rogue 5240
Me 5205
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Perrigrin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:29 am

got an armory? just curious to compare with my gear levels (our last kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-BgGuz ... 375&e=3792)
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Magnusharkov » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:45 am

Gear level is a touch higher, if you were to get the 4 set bonus you would see your dps jump by a decent chunk

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... gnusharkov
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Jedah » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:04 am

The only time fury warriors should be untouchable on DPS are fights that have multiple targets that need to be killed, because we can put out significant AoE damage with WW and glyphed/talented cleave with very little DPS lost to our primary target.

So... the answer? : Your fury warriors might just be really good, or the rest of your dps might just not be exceptional. However, the warriors shouldn't be consistently coming out on top for boss fights, assuming everyone is equally geared.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:38 am

I"m only in a 10 man raiding guild, so take that for what you want. I'm generally #2 on DPS meters for *most* encounters in Uld. I'm one of 3 people in guild to break 7k DPS on XT normal mode. I normally sit right behind either of our raiding rogues, or an arms warrior, or sometimes a hunter.

It's a little hard to look at our DPS in guild because we only do 10 mans but have 22 or so active raiders.

my armory
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Psykewne » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:10 am

Ret paladins are far and away one of the strongest dps in raids right now. I'm ranking anywhere within the top 5 on algalon 25 man in raids with 3 rogues and a feral druid.

Since 3.2 hit I've been fighting with pure dpsers played by people I regard as very skilled and I couldn't be happier. Sure we suffer on some fights with alot of switching or short lived damage periods (I no longer top the brain room on yogg saron for instance), but for the fights where we are able to compete with rogue damage it's more than worth it.

Our reliance on the 13% spell damage buff has been increased with the patch so ensuring this buff is supplied by a lock, boomkin or unholy dk is somewhat key to maximising our performance. It certainly seems that our reliance on a very small buffset for our biggest gains and having most other buffs like sunder etc... being comparatively less effective than for other classes means we perform very well in all manner of 10man variations too.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Perrigrin » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:26 am

Thanks for the input guys, I just need to work harder I guess :P
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby andx » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:53 am

I am usually trading 1/2 with our rogue. usually playing in teh realm of 6.1-6.5 kegs of dps on bosses in 10 man . I dont care about trash... :P

side note Magnusharkov i want your weapon... If i had it instead of ironsoul my piddly little 6.1-6.5k dps would be a thing of the past...
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Kelaan » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:12 am

Perrigrin wrote:I run a decent FCFS rotation with the right prios, and believe I put out a decent dps (would say I average slightly over 4k, some fights lower some fights higher). I however don't bother swapping libram and seal between thrash and longer fights - I go for the long fight setup all the time.

I think this is part of your problem.

For trash or parts of boss fights that have short durations, the "long term" approach doesn't matter much. Use SoR on trash and other things unless you think it will live long enough to make SoV worthwhile. Most trash doesn't last longer than ~10 seconds, it seems, and many adds have a similarly short lifespan. Think carefully about what you are facing, and go for it. Also, you can prioritize DS when doing AOE, rather than CS... but be careful on the pull so that you don't grab aggro by mistake.

edit: Interesting point on our reliance on the spell %damage buff. That's a VERY good point.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Sagedin » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:46 am

andx wrote:I am usually trading 1/2 with our rogue. usually playing in teh realm of 6.1-6.5 kegs of dps on bosses in 10 man . I dont care about trash... :P

side note Magnusharkov i want your weapon... If i had it instead of ironsoul my piddly little 6.1-6.5k dps would be a thing of the past...


I think you might be over estimating your dps there. If I am not mistaken in BiS Ulduar (226/239) gear the theoretical max dps is a little below 7k dps, assuming all buffs and 5 minute duration fights. Seeing as you are talking about 10 man you are most likely in itemlevel 213/226 gear and will miss some raidbuffs.

Currently in my gear I do ~ 6k dps on a stand still boss that does not give damage multipliers by buffs. So unless you are getting chain tricked/hysteria etc I seriously doubt you are pulling out over 6k dps in 10 mans.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] How does our DPS rank in ulduar?

Postby Magnusharkov » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:43 am

Sagedin wrote:
andx wrote:I am usually trading 1/2 with our rogue. usually playing in teh realm of 6.1-6.5 kegs of dps on bosses in 10 man . I dont care about trash... :P

side note Magnusharkov i want your weapon... If i had it instead of ironsoul my piddly little 6.1-6.5k dps would be a thing of the past...


I think you might be over estimating your dps there. If I am not mistaken in BiS Ulduar (226/239) gear the theoretical max dps is a little below 7k dps, assuming all buffs and 5 minute duration fights. Seeing as you are talking about 10 man you are most likely in itemlevel 213/226 gear and will miss some raidbuffs.

Currently in my gear I do ~ 6k dps on a stand still boss that does not give damage multipliers by buffs. So unless you are getting chain tricked/hysteria etc I seriously doubt you are pulling out over 6k dps in 10 mans.


I'd agree with what Sage says. Unless it's a gimmick fight like Hodir I can't see you hitting 6.5k in 10 mans, the gear just isn't there for it. Admittedly I haven't done a patchwerk style fight in ages (haven't done algalon yet) but I don't think I've ever seen my dps go above 6k in a 10 man on a non gimmick boss, and my gear is decent.

As a side note I'd say Rawr is incredibly accurate for this kind of thing. My maximum theoretical dps at the moment with all possible buffs is around 7.3k on a simple tank and spank fight. This feels approximately close to what I can achieve in raids if I extrapolate 100% dps time on the boss with no gimmicks and if I tightened up my rotation a touch. I would heavily recommend everyone get familiar with Rawr when trying to work out what kind of DPS level they should be looking at.

And yes I love my mace :). Got it on our first and only (so far) yogg 10+1 kill. Got a rusted drake on that kill too :).

edit: Ooh same realm! Waves at Sagedin.
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