3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

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3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am

Seal of Command: This ability now chains to strike up to 2 additional targets when it is triggered by an attack.

Seems like a nice boost for AOE threat. Non-glyphed Hammer would deal a total of 12 attacks. 3 Hammer hits and 3 SoC procs per hammer hit.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Noradin » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:36 pm

Flex wrote:Seal of Command: This ability now chains to strike up to 2 additional targets when it is triggered by an attack.

Seems like a nice boost for AOE threat. Non-glyphed Hammer would deal a total of 12 attacks. 3 Hammer hits and 3 SoC procs per hammer hit.


3*3=12?

But yes might be nice to catch aoe groups.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Kynes » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:04 am

It's a pity I'll still skip it in every spec I use.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby smeej » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:50 pm

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1911029 ... ladin.html

" It must be a single-target attack. If the attack is already multi-target like DS, then only the damage procs, not the cleave. "

A lot of people are telling me I'm going to be using Seal of Command for AoE tanking in 3.2.2 but... do paladins really have AoE tanking issues? It seems like we've found a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I feel like I"m not seeing what is so appealing to everyone else.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:20 pm

My guess is that I won't be spending a talent point on this for 3.2
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby supai » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:25 am

You will get a threat nerf so you will probably have threat issues on trash in 3.2.2 so you will probably need this
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Noradin » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:38 am

If the cleave doesn't proc on HotR it is less threat than SoV.
Even if it does it is not more overall threat - its just distributed in a more usefull way to catch mobgroups - something we could justify spending a single point for as flavour talent. It would be no means be mandantory.

Without the cleave working on HotR it is just treating threat for better uptime of vindication on secondary mobs - which won't be worth the talent point.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Jasari » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:23 am

supai wrote:You will get a threat nerf so you will probably have threat issues on trash in 3.2.2 so you will probably need this


I'm generally a lot more than 5% ahead of our DPS on trash so I don't anticipate having threat problems.

Right now my 2nd spec is a heroic tank spec, so I might pick this up in that, assuming the patch comes out before my account runs out.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby asthalon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:51 am

I could see picking up SoCom for a trash-centric spec with a block set.

With 5/5 reckoning it seems like there would be significant opportunity for the cleave to be proc'ing. If you're chain-pulling heroics, I think you'd want to contribute as much dps and as little downtime as possible if your healer's mana can keep up.

I'd think a spec like: 0/53/18.

Since it'd be for trash packs, you can skip SA due to high sanc mana income, drop a point in GBtL because you can reliably count on swinging often enough to refresh DP at 50% while it's on CD, and ignore Vindication when running it with a high-BV block set because what little damage makes it through isn't liable to be a huge problem. Points in PoJ instead to move through more quickly, and points in Conviction & Crusade once again for DPS.

The SoCom change is nice in a block set too since you can look for ways to push more Str into it. With the Touched change to Str, SoCom will be pulling both AP & SP calcs from your Str, all the while increasing your mitigation. It's just a shame you can't shed 3 Redoubt points when you're BV is high enough and pick up Sanctified Ret aura, or you'd really be cookin' on AOE threat (not that we're hurting, mind you, but more is never bad). 'course, just bringin' a ret pally along sort of solves that issue, heh.

As far as glyphs, HotR for max dps/threat in mob groups, and Taunts for when you bork the pull. 3rd glyph's a toss-up really... SoComm if you find you're having mana trouble somehow without SA, Judgement for some extra DPS, or Holy Wrath if you're in an undead-heavy zone (CoS, Naxx, DTK & GD come to mind).
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Jasari » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:04 am

You'll be OOM pretty fast without any points in SA, at least in heroics, which is where this kind of spec would get its most use. Also, there's no real reason to get JotJ for heroics and SotP is a lot more threat than Reckoning.

Right now my spec is: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sMZV0xA0 ... xf0x0c:N0G
for heroics, but I'll probably drop a point in Conviction for SoComm. I'll just have to figure out what to get with the extra glyph slot.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby asthalon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:13 am

SotP wouldn't generate any threat at all though, if using SoComm, is the thing, which is why the 2 points in Reckoning are that much more attractive.

I'd looked at trimming JotJ, I think that's really a preference thing; the 20-second reduction to HoJ right now would be helpful, though I believe it's getting cut in half in 3.2.2 anyway, so they're probably still better served elsewhere.

As for SA, that's admittedly theoretical - I'd have to test it out but I feel like the mana from Sanc on every incoming swing and the ticks of DP would be enough in most trash pack situations (caster-heavy would be the problem point, I reckon), and judging Wis could probably fill in the rest.

Keep in mind this is for chain-pulling heroics too, so part of the assumption is that you (and your healer) have the gear to get up and blitz Nexus in ~20 minutes.

Well, 40. 20 to run, 20 to get in. >.>
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Jasari » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:12 am

asthalon wrote:SotP wouldn't generate any threat at all though, if using SoComm, is the thing, which is why the 2 points in Reckoning are that much more attractive.

Ah true, my SotP reference was to the current state of things, I'll definitely need to change those if I do in fact pick up SoComm... Probably one of those points into Reckoning and the other into Conviction.
asthalon wrote:I'd looked at trimming JotJ, I think that's really a preference thing; the 20-second reduction to HoJ right now would be helpful, though I believe it's getting cut in half in 3.2.2 anyway, so they're probably still better served elsewhere.

As for SA, that's admittedly theoretical - I'd have to test it out but I feel like the mana from Sanc on every incoming swing and the ticks of DP would be enough in most trash pack situations (caster-heavy would be the problem point, I reckon), and judging Wis could probably fill in the rest.

Keep in mind this is for chain-pulling heroics too, so part of the assumption is that you (and your healer) have the gear to get up and blitz Nexus in ~20 minutes.

Well, 40. 20 to run, 20 to get in. >.>

I can definitely say from experience that 1/2 SA isn't always enough to keep my mana up when chaining heroics (sub 15minute clears for the most part) I end up potting from time to time simply because packs are sometimes too spread out to prevent Plea from falling off. Initially, I was attracted to the HoJ CD reduction from JotJ but realized it wasn't really helpful in heroics at all since everything dies so quickily you don't have to worry too much about interrupting or CC.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby asthalon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:54 am

Jasari wrote: I can definitely say from experience that 1/2 SA isn't always enough to keep my mana up when chaining heroics (sub 15minute clears for the most part) I end up potting from time to time simply because packs are sometimes too spread out to prevent Plea from falling off. Initially, I was attracted to the HoJ CD reduction from JotJ but realized it wasn't really helpful in heroics at all since everything dies so quickily you don't have to worry too much about interrupting or CC.


For me, that begs the question - how much mana are you actually even getting from SA at this point, in heroics? Is it a question here of SA actually making the difference between occasional OOM and constant OOM, or is it more a function of not taking very much damage at all, such that SA's contribution is minimal (and so in theory the point might be better spent elsewhere). More so if you're Judging Light, as JoL procs don't proc SA if I recall correctly, but do subtract from the already low amount of healing you're taking that does.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Jasari » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:33 pm

asthalon wrote:
Jasari wrote: I can definitely say from experience that 1/2 SA isn't always enough to keep my mana up when chaining heroics (sub 15minute clears for the most part) I end up potting from time to time simply because packs are sometimes too spread out to prevent Plea from falling off. Initially, I was attracted to the HoJ CD reduction from JotJ but realized it wasn't really helpful in heroics at all since everything dies so quickily you don't have to worry too much about interrupting or CC.


For me, that begs the question - how much mana are you actually even getting from SA at this point, in heroics? Is it a question here of SA actually making the difference between occasional OOM and constant OOM, or is it more a function of not taking very much damage at all, such that SA's contribution is minimal (and so in theory the point might be better spent elsewhere). More so if you're Judging Light, as JoL procs don't proc SA if I recall correctly, but do subtract from the already low amount of healing you're taking that does.


I actually meant to run a WoLogs report from my heroics chaining to look at just that. It definitely varied from heroic to heroic on how much mana SA actually contributed. Something like VH for example, I took less overall damage than the arms warrior in the group so SA was pretty meaningless.

But, my "heroics" spec only takes 51 points in prot, the minimum to get HotR, so if I didn't spend that one point in SA I'd need to spend it elsewhere. The only options are really JotJ, and maybe Reckoning if it's not maxed out already. So I'd much rather have the extra mana than a faster CD on HoJ. Additionally, SA is most beneficial against casters because that's when you're taking the most damage which is also when you're getting the least mana back from BoSanc. The crazy rift opening boss in Nexus for example is a place where I'm hardly getting melee'd at all but at least I'm taking enough damage to sustain some kind of a rotation thanks to SA.
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Re: 3.2.2 Seal of Command for 5 mans and Trash

Postby Aelfric » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:06 am

I think the idea of using the Seal of Command glyph http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41094 is terrific for this spec.

Since mana is the issue, you could potentially use the extra point in tier 2 of the ret tree for 8 second judgments and get 8% of your mana returned every time you judge (wisdom, of course) w/ Seal of Command up. Even running w/ 1/2 SA and Sanctuary, I seem to run low on mana too often, particularly where trash packs are far away (CoS) or timed (VH), so if you wanted to omit SA completely, then this glyph would seem to be mandatory.
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