Remove Advertisements

3.2 AD

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby steadypal » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:26 pm

why arent u testing it with 540 def?
steadypal
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby jere » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:38 pm

Nadir wrote:I think Lore is correct. I'm not quite sure I understand how this is working. I'm not getting the same combat log entry as before once I try this in full gear.

4512/38769 HP
535 Defense Skill

Malygos's attack was absorbed by Bluedeep.(18095 Absorbed)
Bluedeep's Ardent Defender heals Bluedeep for 6703. (17.7% of max hp; Recount says it was a critical heal, but I don't see that in the raw combat log)

Wonder where the "takes X Physical. (X Absorbed) (X Overkill)" went. It's going straight to Absorb now.


Here's some interesting math based on your numbers:

535 def => (135/140)*0.3*38769 = 11215.32

So the heal you get should be 11215.32

You got a heal of 6703, so lets see how much of your heal you lost.

11215 - 6703 = 4512

Does 4512 look familiar?

It looks like: amount_healed = def_rating/140*0.3*max_health - health_before_hit

EDIT: however, that doesn't follow your previous results, but in your previous results, the value would have been negative given that equation, so maybe it is piecewise:

1. If 30% of your health is more than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health - remaining health
2. If 30% of your health is less than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health.

Those are just guesses at the moment though, based on both accounts of Nadir's testing.
Image
User avatar
jere
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Nadir » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:15 pm

steadypal wrote:why arent u testing it with 540 def?


I left my defense trinket in the bank. My standard tanking gear is below 540 and uses the 15 resilience enchant. Obviously we have a bit more incentive to stay at 540 now with the AD heal being tied to defense skill.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Noradin » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:34 am

jere wrote:EDIT: however, that doesn't follow your previous results, but in your previous results, the value would have been negative given that equation, so maybe it is piecewise:

1. If 30% of your health is more than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health - remaining health
2. If 30% of your health is less than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health.


Can't see how that could be intended.
Shouldn't you always end up at 30% maxhp (given the right amount of deff) after taking a hit that would have killed you?

I understand "remaining health" as "remaining health before averted killing blow". Given that and with AD absorbing the entire hit that would have killed you (1.) would put you at 30% health as should be, but (2.) will put you at 30% + remaining health.
That would punish you for having more than 29% (taking you to 59%) health before taking the averted killing blow - which doesn't make sense.
ImageImage
Noradin
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:00 am

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby jere » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:14 am

Noradin wrote:Can't see how that could be intended.
Shouldn't you always end up at 30% maxhp (given the right amount of deff) after taking a hit that would have killed you?

I understand "remaining health" as "remaining health before averted killing blow". Given that and with AD absorbing the entire hit that would have killed you (1.) would put you at 30% health as should be, but (2.) will put you at 30% + remaining health.
That would punish you for having more than 29% (taking you to 59%) health before taking the averted killing blow - which doesn't make sense.


I agree, it shouldn't work like that in my opinion. I am just going off of the data so far. Though take those observations with a grain of salt, they are made over limited data, and things could have changed between now and then, given the last few bug fixing patches on the PTR.

It might be worthwhile to test again.
Image
User avatar
jere
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Elsie » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:17 am

EDIT: however, that doesn't follow your previous results, but in your previous results, the value would have been negative given that equation, so maybe it is piecewise:

1. If 30% of your health is more than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health - remaining health
2. If 30% of your health is less than your remaining health, then amount healed = 30% of your health.

I wonder if it might make sense in some encounters to /sit before a known special to purposefully divebomb your HP >_>
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Kriskringle » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:52 pm

Revisiting that log with the weird amount healed, nowhere does it say that Nadir ever lost his 4512 HP. As jere pointed out, 4512 + 6703 = 11215. I think we might be incorrectly assuming that he ever lost his 4512 HP, and his post-AD proc HP amount was actually 11215.

I could be ignoring something silly, though.

edit for grammar
Kriskringle - 80 - Duskwood
Greatfather Winter is a sham.
Kriskringle
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:05 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Sputterduck » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:18 pm

Having been not yet able to sign on to my server reliably to test for myself, and reading this thread and not finding a clear answer, I'm still confused. Does the new AD save you from ANY size hit and reset you at 30% hp assuming at least 540 def? (If I just missed the answer to this earlier, I'm sorry) I.e., if you take a single 'magic blast of plate-melting fireball' for a million damage, are you still alive?
"experience is what you get when you don't get what you want"
User avatar
Sputterduck
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: California

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Braundo » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:41 pm

Sputterduck wrote:Having been not yet able to sign on to my server reliably to test for myself, and reading this thread and not finding a clear answer, I'm still confused. Does the new AD save you from ANY size hit and reset you at 30% hp assuming at least 540 def? (If I just missed the answer to this earlier, I'm sorry) I.e., if you take a single 'magic blast of plate-melting fireball' for a million damage, are you still alive?

People have reported surviving 80k+ hits with AD, so I would assume so. Maybe they'll nerf it.
User avatar
Braundo
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:14 am
Location: Wiping your raids

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Mert » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:22 am

Okay, I've read through this thread and a few others but either missed it or simply not understood (latter entirely possible, it's early and I'm at work :P) so for clarity would one of you be kind enough to answer a couple of quick questions for me? As I say, I don't doubt they've all been answered elsewhere but it'd be nice to have them in a conscise and consolidated post :)

- Does Ardent Defender's heal work on Defense Rating or Defense Skill?
- Does adding more Defense Rating after 689 (or Skill after 540 I guess) increase its potency at all?
- If there is such an increase is it linear or does it exponentially decay / suffer from some other form of DR?

Thanks a lot and, again, apologies if some of this has already been addressed


EDIT:

Braundo wrote:People have reported surviving 80k+ hits with AD, so I would assume so. Maybe they'll nerf it.


I'd imagine they'll nerf it once people have had it trigger during "designed to definitely one-shot you" attacks like Mimiron's rockets or the shiny ball of doom in Thorim's Gauntlet :lol:

Should also make soloing Prince total cake now.
User avatar
Mert
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:38 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:26 am

Mert wrote:- Does Ardent Defender's heal work on Defense Rating or Defense Skill?
- Does adding more Defense Rating after 689 (or Skill after 540 I guess) increase its potency at all?
- If there is such an increase is it linear or does it exponentially decay / suffer from some other form of DR?

Thanks a lot and, again, apologies if some of this has already been addressed.


1) Does it matter? There's no way of getting defense without stacking defense rating.

2) It caps at 30%, so no.

3) Not sure, but it's most likely linear.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
Image
User avatar
Gamingdevil
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:16 am
Location: Belgium

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Mert » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:10 am

Gamingdevil wrote:1) Does it matter? There's no way of getting defense without stacking defense rating.


Well only from a min/max point of view I guess - but if it did improve over the defense minimum (which you've confirmed it doesn't, so thanks) then it might be marginally better to be at, say, 691 Rating rather than 689, even though both will display 540 Skill on the c-sheet.

Anyway, all academic now if it has a hard cap of 30% so it's all good. Thanks again :)
User avatar
Mert
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:38 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:34 am

Braundo wrote:People have reported surviving 80k+ hits with AD, so I would assume so. Maybe they'll nerf it.

Just to double check, I intentionally ate a shock blast near the end of last night's Mimiron kill:
Leviathan Mk II Shock Blast hits Theck for 29388 Nature. (10000 Resisted) (43192 Absorbed)

Next week: Rocket Strike!
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7761
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Candiru » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:48 am

I noticed that when I died on flame leviathan, AD didn't seem to save me.

My vehicle died, then I took a ram for something like 80,000 overkill and died, but gained the AD debuff.

Maybe it was all happening too fast with the rockets and so on for the combat log to keep track.
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Re: 3.2 AD

Postby Rainge » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:05 am

FYI: Unbalancing Strike negates the save effect of AD. I learned this the hard way last night.
Image
User avatar
Rainge
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:50 am

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest
?php } else { ?