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Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby Loras » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:46 am

I believe those were commented several times, but I can't seem to find the discussion. Not to mention these might not have gone live (since the discussions were mostly based on the PTR data). Apologies if I'm the N-th person to ask for those things, if so - feel free to delete the topic. So there we go:

1) Does SotP talent increase BOTH the dot component AND the weapon dmg % secondary attack? I'm asking because I remember reading here somewhere that it didn't, and was still a bit bad

2) Can this secondary attack from SotP be dodge/parried/missed? I think I read it's true, but still would love a confirmation

3) Does Divine Guardian/Sacrifice absorb 150% of your max hp even with Divine Shield switched on? If so, doesn't it make it a bit pointless unless you're doing some hard modes for maximizing survivability?

Thanks in advance, I think there were other questions, but I can't remember them now. If I do so, I'll edit the topic :)
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:49 am

Loras wrote:I believe those were commented several times, but I can't seem to find the discussion. Not to mention these might not have gone live (since the discussions were mostly based on the PTR data). Apologies if I'm the N-th person to ask for those things, if so - feel free to delete the topic. So there we go:

1) Does SotP talent increase BOTH the dot component AND the weapon dmg % secondary attack? I'm asking because I remember reading here somewhere that it didn't, and was still a bit bad

2) Can this secondary attack from SotP be dodge/parried/missed? I think I read it's true, but still would love a confirmation

3) Does Divine Guardian/Sacrifice absorb 150% of your max hp even with Divine Shield switched on? If so, doesn't it make it a bit pointless unless you're doing some hard modes for maximizing survivability?

Thanks in advance, I think there were other questions, but I can't remember them now. If I do so, I'll edit the topic :)


For 3), I'll give you one situation where I plan on using this.

My guild has used a DK tank on every General Vezax kill. It's nice not having to kite or rely on healers to stop healing and use a CD. Now with their 1-min buff turned into a 2-min buff, I intend to have the DK continue to tank Vezax. He will take odd CD and I will take even CD where I pop this, Hand of Sacrifice, and Divine Guardian (all on 2-min CD). I'll encourage him to use trinkets when I use mine since I'm not immune to being killed in this situation, but the chances are pretty slim. I use a similar strat in 10-man, but need only the ret paladin to use HoSac on me while I tank.

The overall idea being to get ready for dps loss associated with two tanks instead of just one when we finally have casters that can make proper use of Shadow Crashes for hard mode.

I'm sure we're all smart enough around here that we can think of more situations where this is useful.
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby Kriskringle » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:02 am

3) On PTR, Divine Sac was still absorbing more than 150% with Divine Shield up. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24848
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby theckhd » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:13 am

Loras wrote:1) Does SotP talent increase BOTH the dot component AND the weapon dmg % secondary attack? I'm asking because I remember reading here somewhere that it didn't, and was still a bit bad

Yes, it increases both as of the more recent PTR builds.

Loras wrote:2) Can this secondary attack from SotP be dodge/parried/missed? I think I read it's true, but still would love a confirmation

No, it cannot, at least according to a combat log posted during the PTR. Not sure if it has been retested on live yet, but it's unlikely to have changed.
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:03 am

Jerey-Darkspear wrote:My guild has used a DK tank on every General Vezax kill. It's nice not having to kite or rely on healers to stop healing and use a CD. Now with their 1-min buff turned into a 2-min buff, I intend to have the DK continue to tank Vezax. He will take odd CD and I will take even CD where I pop this, Hand of Sacrifice, and Divine Guardian (all on 2-min CD). I'll encourage him to use trinkets when I use mine since I'm not immune to being killed in this situation, but the chances are pretty slim. I use a similar strat in 10-man, but need only the ret paladin to use HoSac on me while I tank.


Hidden within the bug fix section of the official 3.2 patch notes:
    Hand of Sacrifice: Casting this spell on a target with Divine Sacrifice active will now generate an error message instead of wasting the cooldown.

This, to me, suggests that Hand of Sac and Divine Sac never stacked, though I remember situations where it was possible to have both buffs appear active.
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:34 am

They both came up on your buffs but no extra damage transferred - the most powerful one applied.
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:00 am

toothdecaykills wrote:
Jerey-Darkspear wrote:My guild has used a DK tank on every General Vezax kill. It's nice not having to kite or rely on healers to stop healing and use a CD. Now with their 1-min buff turned into a 2-min buff, I intend to have the DK continue to tank Vezax. He will take odd CD and I will take even CD where I pop this, Hand of Sacrifice, and Divine Guardian (all on 2-min CD). I'll encourage him to use trinkets when I use mine since I'm not immune to being killed in this situation, but the chances are pretty slim. I use a similar strat in 10-man, but need only the ret paladin to use HoSac on me while I tank.


Hidden within the bug fix section of the official 3.2 patch notes:
    Hand of Sacrifice: Casting this spell on a target with Divine Sacrifice active will now generate an error message instead of wasting the cooldown.

This, to me, suggests that Hand of Sac and Divine Sac never stacked, though I remember situations where it was possible to have both buffs appear active.


Ah. Thanks for the info. Never actually paid attn when I did this as Ret at the start of the pull. Just hit 'em all to give healers time to get in position. Should still work though. Absorbing 150% of your health should be at least 60,000 health and since it only absorbs 50% of damage, then it would take 120,000 damage. With our new Ardent Defender buff, it shouldn't kill us either.
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Re: Questions about some 3.2 skill mechanics

Postby Corman » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:14 am

I tank General Vezzax just fine without kiting. I take odd surges, my ret pally takes even but I also pop both my trinkets and when he's forgotten HoSac, it still isn't too bad with both trinkets popped. This is for 25, though. In 10, might not have access to as many options.
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