are we actually advantaged for prince?

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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Postby Adairan » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:52 pm

This may be a tangent to the actual issue, however a warr with 81% avoidance, which isn't that hard to attain, cannot be crushed from Prince period can they? My tanking partner can reach that now, with maybe 2 pieces from Kara, granted he loses a ton of stamina to get there, but its the same end result. No crushes during P2. At that gear level are they then at the worst equivalent?
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Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:08 pm

A simple 81% avoidance isn't enough to not be crushed. To be honest, it does not affect the 15% chance of crushing.

He's just lucky, and very good at keeping Shield Block active.
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Postby Adairan » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:22 pm

The premise is that due to the fact Prince is dual wielding he has a higher than the base chance to miss listed on the character sheet. Keep in mind he doesn't actually tank Prince in the 81% avoidance gear, but he was pretty certain from some theorycrafting he had came across that this was the case. Due to the fact Prince actually dual wields he misses a greater percent and to reach passive avoidance is a lot easier than say against a more traditional boss where you would need the full 102.4% passive to not be crushed without Holy Shield/Shield Block.
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Postby Makaijin » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:56 pm

If he has 81% pure avoidance, he can keep shield block up for a much longer time. The fact is he will avoid most of the attacks, and reducing his chance to use up his shield block charges dramatically. He's not passively uncrushable, but with that high of avoidance, the shield block acts more of a backup.
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Postby somegaijin42 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:26 pm

Melathys wrote:My last run..phase 2 was a complete joke.

Paladin has the luxury to disengage prince for phase 2 (eliminating parries) while still keeping up superb TPS, via holy shield, consecration and exorcism.


I actually tried this tonight...warned the raid beforehand, so they wouldn't think I'd AFK'd or anything. It' FRIGGIN ROCKED! Didn't take a single crush, or a single quick parry attack. And I'd built up a nice enough threat lead in Phase 1 that the DPS was still a solid 10% behind me when we hit phase 3. We didn't down him, due to bad infernal drops (over 5 F@#&$ tries!), but we got him deep into phase 3 every time, and got him to less than 10% three times (1% once).
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Postby Bige » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:52 am

somegaijin42 wrote:
Melathys wrote:My last run..phase 2 was a complete joke.

Paladin has the luxury to disengage prince for phase 2 (eliminating parries) while still keeping up superb TPS, via holy shield, consecration and exorcism.


I actually tried this tonight...warned the raid beforehand, so they wouldn't think I'd AFK'd or anything. It' FRIGGIN ROCKED! Didn't take a single crush, or a single quick parry attack. And I'd built up a nice enough threat lead in Phase 1 that the DPS was still a solid 10% behind me when we hit phase 3. We didn't down him, due to bad infernal drops (over 5 F@#&$ tries!), but we got him deep into phase 3 every time, and got him to less than 10% three times (1% once).


Worked like a charm for me as well, especially once I remembered judgement=auto-attack :wink: Great advice!
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Postby somegaijin42 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:09 pm

Bige wrote:
somegaijin42 wrote:
Melathys wrote:My last run..phase 2 was a complete joke.

Paladin has the luxury to disengage prince for phase 2 (eliminating parries) while still keeping up superb TPS, via holy shield, consecration and exorcism.


I actually tried this tonight...warned the raid beforehand, so they wouldn't think I'd AFK'd or anything. It' FRIGGIN ROCKED! Didn't take a single crush, or a single quick parry attack. And I'd built up a nice enough threat lead in Phase 1 that the DPS was still a solid 10% behind me when we hit phase 3. We didn't down him, due to bad infernal drops (over 5 F@#&$ tries!), but we got him deep into phase 3 every time, and got him to less than 10% three times (1% once).


Worked like a charm for me as well, especially once I remembered judgement=auto-attack :wink: Great advice!


Yeah, for that, I actually had to hotkey "Attack", just so I could turn it off! I've had no button for it since about...patch 1.3 or so...but now it's got a permanent (though strange) place on my bars.
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Postby kywirelessguy » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:24 pm

Why are people still complaining about infernal drops?

Read the wowwiki prince page.

Tank and ranged will never have to move again.
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Postby Melathys » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:34 pm

somegaijin42 wrote:
Bige wrote:
somegaijin42 wrote:
Melathys wrote:My last run..phase 2 was a complete joke.

Paladin has the luxury to disengage prince for phase 2 (eliminating parries) while still keeping up superb TPS, via holy shield, consecration and exorcism.


I actually tried this tonight...warned the raid beforehand, so they wouldn't think I'd AFK'd or anything. It' FRIGGIN ROCKED! Didn't take a single crush, or a single quick parry attack. And I'd built up a nice enough threat lead in Phase 1 that the DPS was still a solid 10% behind me when we hit phase 3. We didn't down him, due to bad infernal drops (over 5 F@#&$ tries!), but we got him deep into phase 3 every time, and got him to less than 10% three times (1% once).


Worked like a charm for me as well, especially once I remembered judgement=auto-attack :wink: Great advice!


Yeah, for that, I actually had to hotkey "Attack", just so I could turn it off! I've had no button for it since about...patch 1.3 or so...but now it's got a permanent (though strange) place on my bars.


I just use the default. "T"
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Postby somegaijin42 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:52 pm

Melathys wrote:I just use the default. "T"


Hehe....had no idea. =P
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Postby Melathys » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:18 pm

amazing the things that happen when you frantically reach for the 6 (hammer of wrath for me) and accidentally hit the T

:lol:
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Postby Kream » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:15 pm

Makaijin wrote:If he has 81% pure avoidance, he can keep shield block up for a much longer time. The fact is he will avoid most of the attacks, and reducing his chance to use up his shield block charges dramatically. He's not passively uncrushable, but with that high of avoidance, the shield block acts more of a backup.


A warrior with 84% avoidance (including block rating) will go uncrushable in Phase 2 without using shield block. This is because the Prince suffers the 19% DW miss penalty.. bringing your avoidance to 103%. We still eat the parries though, and stacking that much avoidance tends to gimp your hps.
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Postby Adairan » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:12 pm

Kream wrote:
Makaijin wrote:If he has 81% pure avoidance, he can keep shield block up for a much longer time. The fact is he will avoid most of the attacks, and reducing his chance to use up his shield block charges dramatically. He's not passively uncrushable, but with that high of avoidance, the shield block acts more of a backup.


A warrior with 84% avoidance (including block rating) will go uncrushable in Phase 2 without using shield block. This is because the Prince suffers the 19% DW miss penalty.. bringing your avoidance to 103%. We still eat the parries though, and stacking that much avoidance tends to gimp your hps.


Thanks for understanding what I was saying, 84% is the number then. I'm not sure how much Stamina would hafta be sacrificed to reach that number on a warrior but I would imagine that at some gear point warriors pull ahead for this fight. Paladins could achieve this number as well but uch like passive uncrushability, paladins would have to not only gimp the stamina but threat production as well to even hope of hitting 84%.
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Postby Kream » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:40 pm

Adairan wrote:
Kream wrote:
A warrior with 84% avoidance (including block rating) will go uncrushable in Phase 2 without using shield block. This is because the Prince suffers the 19% DW miss penalty.. bringing your avoidance to 103%. We still eat the parries though, and stacking that much avoidance tends to gimp your hps.


Thanks for understanding what I was saying, 84% is the number then. I'm not sure how much Stamina would hafta be sacrificed to reach that number on a warrior but I would imagine that at some gear point warriors pull ahead for this fight. Paladins could achieve this number as well but uch like passive uncrushability, paladins would have to not only gimp the stamina but threat production as well to even hope of hitting 84%.


Achieving passive uncrushability costs me about 1.5k hps and 1k armor. A paladin wouldn't need to since your shield block can keep up with Prince. As soon as our tankadin gets enough gear to be uncrushable with Holy Shield up, he's tanking Prince since he can do it in normal tank gear.
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Postby Germund » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:22 pm

Tbh I don't have autoattack mapped ever on any toon, and a faster way to turn off attack is just making a macro for prince.

#showtooltip
/cast Judgement
/stopattack



(old thread digup I know, but I've seen few macros listed here so I thought I'd toss one in) :P
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