Losing AoE Threat

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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby HolySpoony » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:15 pm

Theck, you mention not to use exorcism in 3.2, but even with the 1.5 cast, couldn't you just throw it before your shield and that entire pick-up scenario would be the same?

As for the OP, yes, AoE won't really be held with just a consecrate, especially with DPS being so used to just being able to go all out the moment you whack the first guy these days. Just ask them to calm down and hold back until you get a few whacks out, and spread your whacks around and you'll be fine. A shield or a hammer to the face of the other mobs will do a wonder of good, and if the AoE is coming down, you won't need all that extra threat on the first guy anyway.

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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Blutreich » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:24 pm

I use SoL on large packs, sure the threat isn't that high but it is the only seal that adds threat to the mobs you are not catching with hammer/melee. And on large packs that is where you need extra threat.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:32 pm

I'm not sure that SoL threat is really worth losing the possibility of spreading SoV stacks around to be honest. Say with hotr hitting as many mobs as it can, my SoL procs on average once a second (though I suspect the actual frequency would be lower), healing for 800 hp per proc. So 800 hps (assuming it's all effective healing and no overhealing, which is unlikely). 800 hps would have to be multiplied by 0.5 (base healing threat multiplier for all classes) and then 0.5 again (paladin specific healing threat multiplier) and then 1.9 * 1.43, leaving us at 543 tps, split between all mobs in combat. With 5 mobs, 108 tps, with 8 mobs, 68 tps.

A single stack of blood corruption (or whatever the ally dot is called) ticks for ~150 holy damage every 3 seconds, which is 136 tps. So you'd only have to get a single stack of vengeance/corruption on a mob to out threat what you'd have generated with seal of light, and by quickly switching through mobs, coupled with HotR, that should be pretty easy even on packs of 7 or 8. And more than likely you'd get 2-3 stacks of the dot on several mobs. Maybe with packs of 10+ it wouldn't be manageable, but I can't really think of any packs of 10+ mobs in current content that don't die within five or six seconds. And on packs of 10+, your SoL would be generating 50 tps on each assuming it's all effective healing.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Blutreich » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:55 pm

still SoL is the only seal that adds threat to mobs you don't hit, i prefer it on large pulls, even if i have to double-tripple pull to get enough B]

with a 1.6 wep spamming HoR i was getting .337 PPS or 38% proc, on ream mobs i would also get parry haste and probably WF totem increasing ppm, i swore only holy light and flash of light got the extra threat redux but can't find proof. i will test later.
SoL might suck more then i thought.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby sublimated » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:16 am

When all else fails, whack on ret aura as well :D
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Khayne » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:32 am

HolySpoony wrote:Theck, you mention not to use exorcism in 3.2, but even with the 1.5 cast, couldn't you just throw it before your shield and that entire pick-up scenario would be the same?


Also you could just start the rotation with HoR for the damage on 1 mob as they aren't targetting you at the start in 3.2.
I wont need HoR for 8 seconds from pull anyway so after pre-pull HS as first i shoot my AS and exo (maybe HoR in 3.2 instead of exo), Then drop concecrate just before mobs come to me. Then Hotr first 3 in range, and Judge/Shor something that don't seem to be glued to me yet or the main burn target (if we kill 1 mob before rest). If someone pulled something this soon to fight that HoR wasn't up yet, the dps wouldn't got much on it either and i'd most likely just pick it up with ShoR or if that isn't enough, RD.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Funtodin » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:45 am

With hammer, avenger's shield, consecration, judgement and shor, plus holy shield threat, there's a lot of stuff you can throw at the mobs there.
Especially in CoS, all undead mobs, and having all the pulls being timed, it's really easy to just open with a holy wrath on every group and wtfpwn them with the AoE stun. In places like heroic Pinnacle, we're so used to farming the instance for the mount I just chain pull from the 1st boss all the way up to the 2nd boss before it finishes the emote, then running back aoe tanking everything to start the 1st boss fight. Great for keeping Divine Plea from dropping :mrgreen:
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby ítank » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:16 pm

Losing threat to a fire mage?

with living bomb being able to be on multiple targets....and only a 10% threat reduction....

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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Veilan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:56 pm

I never had any AoE threat problems, up until the patch. I haven't even respecced 2 points from 5/5 seals of the pure into vindication yet, yet I'm having a hard time maintaining a group to stay with me, something I never experienced pre-patch. I'm at a total loss why. The effective nerf of shield of righteousness should only make it harder against single targets (where the better vengeance seems to more than offset it). Is there some bug with Righteous Fury flying around, or what gives? Did other classes get threat buffs? I'm flummoxed, and it was an annoying experience, that so far has me at odds with the patch.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Sturmm:) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:28 am

Last night i ran Ulduar 10 and noticed that i was much closer to the dps on Omen than ever before and on more than a few trash groups lost aggro to a fire mage and had to taunt. I've changed my spec slightly dropping crusade for 3/5 reckoning and vindication but there's no way that my tps should be that much lower now, even on the bosses i felt i was fighting much harder to maintain a tps lead than pre patch.
After Kologarn i started watching Omen and tankadin tps much more closely and was struggling to keep 4k tps, i normally sit way above 5k, needless to say this was pissing me off. :evil:

Before anyone asks, yes RF was up, yes i'm familiar with 969, yes i was fully buffed and in my normal tanking gear. It just felt like maybe RF itself was bugged.

P.S. RF doesn't seem to show up on Elkano's Buffbars but i know it was on from looking at my portrait with X-Pearl
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby amh » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:33 am

RF shows up as an aura on my Elkano's (no duration). Have you modified Elkano's to show auras somewhere else?
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Sturmm:) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:47 am

Hmm yeah i set up an aura only bar, i'll have a look for it in there thx
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Veilan » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:54 am

Something just doesn't feel entirely right at the moment. I'm turning righteous fury off and on when I rebuff, but I think something might have been not done perfectly, with them working til the last day on paladin abilities. Anyone noticed anything odd, like lower consecration damage or the like? I can't put my finger on it yet, but if you tank daily, and often times with the same people, you just notice when it feels different. It's not that it's too problematic, but I'm simply not used to having to taunt a bit into a group pull.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Fafa » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:00 am

Pallies are not the best aoe threat anymore. Neither initial burst aoe threat, nor aoe threat over time. We sit pretty much in the middle of both worlds.
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Re: Losing AoE Threat

Postby Leuthas » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:56 pm

Fafa wrote:Pallies are not the best aoe threat anymore. Neither initial burst aoe threat, nor aoe threat over time. We sit pretty much in the middle of both worlds.

How so? As it stands, you provided no proof, no information, data or sources. Why should anyone even consider your opinion?
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