[25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby repent » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:07 pm

Belloc wrote:Tell me, what are you going to do if one of your melee has Sara's Fervor (increases damage taken by 100%) and another has her Blessing or Anger? Add blows up, one gets iceblocked, one dies. I'll tell you what you'll do -- you'll either call for a wipe or waste a battle res.

If melee aren't running out, you're just asking for deaths. Even if it works for your guild, it's foolish to suggest it to a guild just now learning the fight.


Nothing foolish about this strategy whatsoever. I've done this with 2 guilds so far.

In my first guild to reach Yogg, we spent nearly 2 weeks working on the ferry method. I should properly say wasted 2 weeks. Our dps was inconsistant, adds still spawned, it was a total and complete mess. Finally we worked out a split camp method, tanks and melee in the middle, and range divided into 2 range camps on opposite sides from each other. (If one group was pushed out the other was generally ok) We marked 2 range people with situational awareness, and the each side followed this one person.
If melee gets a debuff from sarah, they simply run out without dpsing the boss. We dont need their dps badly enough and it is much more efficient overall. (The other issue is phase 2, which we got past by assigning each person a specific portal. We photoshopped numbers on a picture of the portals in yoggs room and assigned each person a specific portal and kill target.

In my current guild, they have always done it via ferry method. (5/9 HMs now) I hate it, but it works ok, so no big deal.

No need to be insulting just because something is different.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:25 pm

repent wrote:No need to be insulting just because something is different.


I didn't take it as insulting :P
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Meyrinn » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:30 pm

All guilds have different strengths and weaknesses. Its up to the raid leader to know them and adjust the strategy to what will work best for that group. Both methods are viable strategies. I personally prefer the center method, but we do ferrying in 25 man and it works. Center caused us more problems because we have some people with weaker pc's or latency or brain dead making them prone to cloud hitting for the center method. In our 10 man hard mode group we do center without any issues.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:50 pm

If you have people tagging clouds all the time or lagging, and you bring more than 3 healers to Yogg (most bring far more than needed when learning), you can literally make those people stand on Sara and not move at all. They might waste ice blocks and even die if they get Favor during an explosion, but at least they won't wipe you with adds.

Melee have no excuse not to be able to run out, by the way. Just have a practice pull where the melee spend the whole time running laps from Sara to outside the ring, back and forth. The pattern isn't that hard to learn. They just need to abandon the concept of 'must stand behind dps target' and stay with the tank when clouds are near.
Last edited by PsiVen on Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Horanur » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:52 pm

Ok so we've had about 3 nights of attempts now.

We are currently getting Yogg to 60-70% or so on our best attempts in P2. Our problem: Lack of control of brain group.

We have 8 Melee and 2 elemental shamans going into the room. Our problem is that we CONSTANTLY have our brain room people get contricted outside just as the portals spawn. And the "Top Team" is always grouped up over by a crusher tentacle. So we're never having 10 people simultaneously enter brain room to start the process of stunning and damaging yogg, and we're only putting up 10-15% brain damage per phase.

Any suggestions with how to do this?

It seems like any solution just causes a new problem. IE We group up outside to wait for portals, but we lose valuable seconds running to the portals then. Or we fan out and have each brain member stand exacty in a portal spawn.... and BOOM constricted.

Should we have holy paladins "guard" each portal team with a HoP macro?
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:57 pm

Yes, BoP on constricted melee trying to enter portals is a great way to deal with them. It's still tricky as range is an issue, but as far as I know only one can be constricted at once. Have them fan out and stand on top of portals while they spawn. Make sure the brain people know that the absolute #1 priority is getting into their portal as soon as possible and killing tentacles within 20 seconds of them opening. The #1 cause of "lol I didn't make it to my portal" is someone who wasn't in the right spot at the right time to begin with.

Also if you're doing normal mode and melee are dying, send a healer down. Ranged DPS are able to contribute very little to tentacle killing anyway, and as long as you focus on doing that quickly the brain will go down much more consistently anyway.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Splug » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:29 am

Belloc wrote:Tell me, what are you going to do if one of your melee has Sara's Fervor (increases damage taken by 100%) and another has her Blessing or Anger? Add blows up, one gets iceblocked, one dies. I'll tell you what you'll do -- you'll either call for a wipe or waste a battle res.

If melee aren't running out, you're just asking for deaths. Even if it works for your guild, it's foolish to suggest it to a guild just now learning the fight.
Sara targets the player she is casting on, and those spells have a 3-4 second cast time. Throw her on focus; it lets you see who's getting Malady of the Mind in phase II as well. If your name shows up in the focus' target frame, it's time to go.

We've found it's easier to heal the melee through the explosion than it is to heal everyone through an uninterrupted volley, and that with less motion it's easier to avoid tripping more clouds.

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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Cakes » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:40 am

Having melee setup in the middle also helps you when you're ready to move onto the harder modes of Yogg, where it's all but required to save time in P1.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Threatco » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:23 pm

Someone said once that melee can camp right on Sara and basicly thats a "safe" spot where they can dps adds from.

Is this true? My experience from 10 tells be that the inner most cloud basicly covers sara completely in it's rotation. But I would not be surprised if I am wrong about that.

Is there a safe spot on sara from clouds, if so how big is it? If so is it reasonable to use it?

I am assuming it is not, in which case the "tank adds in middle" strat would require a full p1 of melee dodging the inner clouds flawlessly.

Either way I seems this way would be more consistant once mastered then ferry method for us, we will try it.
Last edited by Threatco on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Belloc » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:32 pm

Threatco wrote:Someone said once that melee can camp right on Sara and basicly thats a "safe" spot where they can dps adds from.

Is this true? My experience from 10 tells be that the inner most cloud basicly covers sara completely in it's rotation. But I would not be surprised if I am wrong about that.

Is there a safe spot on sara from clouds, if so how big is it? If so is it reasonable to use it?

I am assuming it is not, in which case the tnak adds in middle strat would require a full p1 of melee dodging the inner clouds flawlessly.

I think I will try it this way either way.


The inner-most cloud will clip sara at almost all times. It is, however, fairly clear where you need to stand. Just be opposite the cloud. You basically rotate in a circle the entire time, which is incredibly simple.

I do still think, however, that it is incredibly foolish to park all of your melee there and never have them run out. Trust me, you will have deaths.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Threatco » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Belloc,

What about asking everyone to /focus sara, and watch out for and call out when she casts the debuff 100% increased damage and on who. That person then goes and sits out until the debuff is off. Let the rest of the non debuffed melee soak the explosions.

Realistic?
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby baleogthefierce » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:19 am

Threatco wrote:Belloc,

What about asking everyone to /focus sara, and watch out for and call out when she casts the debuff 100% increased damage and on who. That person then goes and sits out until the debuff is off. Let the rest of the non debuffed melee soak the explosions.

Realistic?


Now you're talkin'!
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Belloc » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:02 pm

Threatco wrote:Belloc,

What about asking everyone to /focus sara, and watch out for and call out when she casts the debuff 100% increased damage and on who. That person then goes and sits out until the debuff is off. Let the rest of the non debuffed melee soak the explosions.

Realistic?


Honestly, you won't know until you try it. Remember, you've already got people dodging clouds and dealing with a variety of things. Consider whether or not you expect your raiders to be able to react quickly enough and base your decision off of that.

I still believe that you'll have random deaths, here and there, but you never know until you try. There's no harm in trying, as long as people understand exactly what it is you are trying.

Personally, I think it'd be a bit much for some of my raiders. I prefer to tank the mobs right on (around) Sara and have melee run out, but my 25-man isn't good enough at avoiding clouds, so we have to use a strategy that I don't prefer. It all depends on how strong your raid is.

Let us know how it works out.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Horanur » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:08 pm

We're getting to P3 consistantly now. (we have 5-6 minutes on enrage)

We usually have 1 crusher to finish off from P2 as the transition occurs. Should we have everyone just meet up at the last crusher? I don't think that it can simply be ignored for P3. Also, due to low-threat melee and melee splash damage, we have the melee DPS'ing down the guardians. We have healers facing away from yogg the whole time. Our best attempt got him to 14 million. We have 2 tanks + me in a hybrid ret spec. (I seem to be one of 2 people in the guild who can reliably taunt the P1 guards down to Sara). We just get overwhelmed immediately by the immortals it seems.
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Re: [25] Yogg Saron (Normal Mode)

Postby Belloc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:25 pm

That crusher spawns an additional add at the start of phase 3, which means that you are immediately behind.

If you need to, use a heroism to catch up before entering phase 3. Also, if you get to the last brain phase (brain is at around 45% when the illusion shatters), don't kill it as fast as you can. DPS it down to about 33% and then have half of your DPS leave to go assist with the stunned Crusher. Once there is 10 seconds left on the timer, have the remaining DPS in the brain room bring the brain down to 30% and then leave. This should give you plenty of time to finish off the last crusher before entering phase 3.

I know you'll be anxious to get out of phase 2 as fast as possible, but patience will get you a better phase 3. Get that last crusher down while it's still stunned!
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