How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

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How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby snoweagle » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:48 am

Hello there,

I've got two questions regarding stats/kings and talent mitigations:

1. How do base stats and their resulting sombat stats get rounded? Specifically I'm thinking of small stat numbers like the agi/stam gem vs equal ilvl combat stat gems like dodge/stam, how the kings benefit can be usefully expressed.

2. Do the % mitigations from different talents add or multiply each other and if they multiply then how is the order determined? There was a great post about it somewhere here the other day but my searches.

Thanks for any answers,

Snoweagle
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Sathoris » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:16 am

SnowEagle wrote:2. Do the % mitigations from different talents add or multiply each other and if they multiply then how is the order determined? There was a great post about it somewhere here the other day but my searches.


Mitigation talents add (read: they don't multiply).

IE: RF 6%, BoSanc 3%, SotT 3% = a total of 12% All Damage Reduction via Talents
Count in Magic Damage Reduction: GbtL 6%, Meta Gem 2% , 12% Previous All Damage Reduction = a total of 20% Magic Only Damage Reduction.

As for Buffs:
For the sake of simplicity let's take an example:
1000 amount of unbuffed stamina
10% Kings -> 1100 stamina

1000 amount of unbuffed stamina
100 priest buff
10% kings

(1000 + 100) * 10% => 1210 stamina

and so on.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby jere » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:31 am

Sathoris wrote:Mitigation talents add (read: they don't multiply).

IE: RF 6%, BoSanc 3%, SotT 3% = a total of 12% All Damage Reduction via Talents
Count in Magic Damage Reduction: GbtL 6%, Meta Gem 2% , 12% Previous All Damage Reduction = a total of 20% Magic Only Damage Reduction.
and so on.

Actually, this is slightly wrong. The talents are multiplicative:

Physical:
1 - (1-RF)*(1-SotT)*(1-DP_glyph) = 11.5554% damage reduction. Adding in BoSanc makes it 14.2087% damage reduction

Magic:
1 - (1-RF)*(1-SotT)*(1-DP_glyph)*(1-GBtL) = 16.862% damage reduction via talents. Adding in BoSanc makes it 19.356%

The 2% meta is handle the same way.


SnowEagle wrote:2. Do the % mitigations from different talents add or multiply each other and if they multiply then how is the order determined? There was a great post about it somewhere here the other day but my searches.

They multiply. The key thing to remember as well is order doesn't matter either, even if they multiply. Order does not matter.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Jasari » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:37 am

Meh, started typing out basically the exact same reply as jere, got distracted by someone at work who asked me a question and came back to see it was already posted.

But yeah, DR is multiplicative, not additive and the order doesn't matter.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Sathoris » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:41 am

My bad then, from the combat log i haven't done the exact calculation but roughly it seems that they added although the values are basically in the same range (or pretty close).

So BoSanc is the only one that adds in the end.

I'll keep that in mind next time i reply :)
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Jasari » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:51 am

Sathoris wrote:So BoSanc is the only one that adds in the end.


No, it's multiplied just like everything else.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby snoweagle » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:32 am

Cheers for the quick replies!
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Noradin » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:10 am

If it decreases something it multiplies.
If it increases something it adds.
(This kind of behavior was introduced in WoW to keep numbers more nearer to 1 or 100% thus preventing effects from interacting to strongly.)

Mitigation is seen as decrease of damage intake.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby jere » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:17 pm

Actually, that second part isn't really true. Most things multipy whether they decrease or increase. Threat bonuses multiply for example: 1.9*1.43*1.02 for RF*Baked_In_Salv*Gloves_enchant. The same for stamina modifiers. They all multiply, not add. Talents that increase damage or stats typically multiply rather than add. Addition is typically the exception to the rule rather than the rule. The one that comes to mind off the top of my head is the BV meta. It adds to the redoubt multiplier rather than simply multiplying through like everything else.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby Makaijin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:01 pm

This was changed way back from early BC (patch 2.0, before BC release) if my memory serves me right. Before the change it used to be additive, since patch 2.0 everything was changed to be multiplitive.

Only things that are additive are things that directly modify the hit tables (both melee and spell hit table), such as dodge talents, crit or hit talents, or buffs or debuffs such as Scorpid Sting or Sunwell Radiance. Things which modify the amount of something, such as damage, healing or stats, are always multiplitive, be it damage done or damage taken, or the amount of stats increased, be it from talents or from buffs and debuffs. Examples are 1 hand weapon spec talent, warrior defensive stance, or stat increasing/decreasing buffs or debuffs.

An example I can remember from back then was the threat bonus from RF. Before 3.0, RF gave a base of 60% bonus threat (making 160%), with 3 points maxed talent it said an extra 50% bonus threat. Pre 2.0 the bonus was additive, so you actually got 210% total threat, even the tooltips explicitly said 210%. When 2.0 came along it bacame multiplitive. 50% of 60% ( 0.6 x 1.5 = 0.9 ) and the tooltip was updated to reflect 190%.

Another example was from mage talents that increased crit damage done. Although the spec wasn't ideal, but it was possible for a mage to spec into arcane and frost to achieve over 200% crit damage bonus. Since it was additive back then, mages were pwning people with 300% crits from their frostbolts. There were other examples with talents with other classes which i don't remember, and it was this exact reason they changed everything to be multiplitive.
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Re: How are stats rounded? Is talent mitigation + or x?

Postby tullock » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:21 pm

Righteous fury was 90% threat talented the day 1.9 went live, not 110%. The book didnt list it as anything but 90%, which was a really sore spot for alot of paladins because the announced ( and patch notes) righteous fury was originally going to be 100% base with a 50% talent making it 150%
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