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Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Rehlachs » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:13 am

It's not mandatory, it doesn't help on every encounter, but it has it's moments.

I liked it on Freya HM f.e.: Imp HoJ allowed a smoother distribution of our DPS on the 3 elementals, since I was able to take care of the AWS (almost) all by myself.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:47 pm

Glad i'm not the only one thinking about dropping Imp. Devo aura for this. Our raids are very tree-heavy and tankadin-heavy, so someone else already has both the imp devo and ++healing effect handled, so I think I'd rather have a more-available interrupt. Is this silly?
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Vedge » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:11 am

I never let anyone else but myself have Devo Aura (improved or not) on in any raid. That's just my way i guess. I prefer to be selfsufficient. It's the same as with JotJ i guess, in thery you can always ask a prot warrior/pala/dk to apply that kind of buff, but would you do that?

And about the subject, i run with Imp Hoj in Ulduar. Basically i took it instead of improved SS as i dont see myself using it on most fights. I do however like 20 sec cd on the longest stun in the game and use it often. I especially like it in Thorim's gauntlet, on Freya's Snaplashers and Mimiron's Assault bots...
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Kniteshade » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:22 am

Solare wrote:That being said, it still isn't ideal. And, of course, paladins will probably never get an interrupt that's off the GCD for PvP reasons (which never made a lot of sense to me) and honestly; I really expected that our 11pt talent would have been an GCD-free interrupt of some sort. If they had done that, the need to add the interrupt to Hammer of Justice would have never been necessary, and it currently feels gimmicky right now.

But think about this: As far as paladin interrupts go, this is as good as it gets right now.


Problem:

The Blood Elf racial, Arcane Torrent, is an interrupt that is off the GCD, although it may trigger it, you can use it any time. Now while this is almost useless in Ulduar it does present a problem. Blizzard could not currently give Paladins another carte blanche interrupt like a non-GCD HoJ so long as Blood Elves have one because that would give us Blood Elf Paladins yet another interrupt in PvP that is not on the GCD. Definitely very OP.

Current Fix:

What they would need to do first are either to remove or alter that racial, almost certainly not going to happen when considered next to Tauren War Stomp. Or to alter the way HoJ works in PvP. Which, if you've read upcoming changes, they are doing. HoJ will no longer interrupt spellcasting in PvP. Which, in the future, could leave open some possibilities for the GCD-free HoJ we'd all like to see for PvE.

Personally, I love both PvP and PvE so I'm not sure which I'd rather. A near useless HoJ in PvP is something I strongly dislike, but again, I have Arcane Torrent. Either way, I would strongly suggest we be careful what we wish for, we may get it. And we may get it Blizzard-style :shock:

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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Jasari » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:31 am

Kniteshade wrote:
Problem:

The Blood Elf racial, Arcane Torrent, is an interrupt that is off the GCD, although it may trigger it, you can use it any time. Now while this is almost useless in Ulduar it does present a problem. Blizzard could not currently give Paladins another carte blanche interrupt like a non-GCD HoJ so long as Blood Elves have one because that would give us Blood Elf Paladins yet another interrupt in PvP that is not on the GCD. Definitely very OP.

Current Fix:

What they would need to do first are either to remove or alter that racial, almost certainly not going to happen when considered next to Tauren War Stomp. Or to alter the way HoJ works in PvP. Which, if you've read upcoming changes, they are doing. HoJ will no longer interrupt spellcasting in PvP. Which, in the future, could leave open some possibilities for the GCD-free HoJ we'd all like to see for PvE.

Personally, I love both PvP and PvE so I'm not sure which I'd rather. A near useless HoJ in PvP is something I strongly dislike, but again, I have Arcane Torrent. Either way, I would strongly suggest we be careful what we wish for, we may get it. And we may get it Blizzard-style :shock:

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First of all, Arcane Torent is not an interrupt. It's a silence, so it works against trash, players, or anything that's not immune to silence. Nearly every boss in WoW is immune to silence though, so it has virtually no use against raid bosses.

And for PvP, why would having arcane torrent and another silence be OP? In case you didn't know, Blood Elf Rogues exist, and they get to keep Arcane Torent even though they also get to Kick. Same is true for Blood Elf Mages who don't have to sacrifice Arcane Torrent in order to gain Counter Spell.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Candiru » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:37 am

I think arcane torrent is going to apply an interrupt affect vs mobs in 3.2 though, which will be nice :)
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Jasari » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:45 am

Candiru wrote:I think arcane torrent is going to apply an interrupt affect vs mobs in 3.2 though, which will be nice :)


Wow, that's true

Silence, Strangulate, Silencing Shot, and Arcane Torrent: These abilities will also apply a 3-second Interrupt effect against non-player controlled targets, making them more versatile against creatures immune to silencing effects.


You think they'd put that under the "Races: General" instead of Class: General" section on the patch notes, I'll use that as my excuse for not seeing it until now.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Braundo » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:36 am

Candiru wrote:I think arcane torrent is going to apply an interrupt affect vs mobs in 3.2 though, which will be nice :)

I had already assumed it did this, until last night when I was trying to use it on Freya trash and it didn't seem to be working. A welcome change.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:55 am

Can someone post on the US forums and ask for us to get ShieldOfTheTemplar an interrupt vs mobs as well as the silence? Would be nice.

Although, an interrupt off the GCD would be nicer.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Ryyu » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:49 am

Imp HoJ lets you solo Tiger if that helps. But yeah Imp HoJ is proving a god send in Ulduar, Helpful in yogg p2 as well if you walk past any Corrupters.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Invisusira » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:14 am

One thing kinda useful that not many people know - you can actually interrupt Auriaya's Sentinel Blast yourself without any fear breaking. Without Imp HoJ, you can only interrupt every other one because HoJ is JUST coming off CD when she casts it, but with at least one point the show is all yours - as long as you have the timing to pull it off.

Go on, try it. Next time you're fighting her, pull up your Recount interrupt counter. Hit HoJ JUST as the cast on Terrifying Screech is about to finish. You'll get feared and Sentinel Blast will get interrupted at the exact same moment. (If done properly, you won't even see Sentinel Blast's cast bar.)

And just keep an eye on what she's actually casting as she'll occasionally try to throw you off by casting Sonic Screech twice in a row.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Venoseth » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:36 pm

Invisusira wrote:One thing kinda useful that not many people know - you can actually interrupt Auriaya's Sentinel Blast yourself without any fear breaking. Without Imp HoJ, you can only interrupt every other one because HoJ is JUST coming off CD when she casts it, but with at least one point the show is all yours - as long as you have the timing to pull it off.

Go on, try it. Next time you're fighting her, pull up your Recount interrupt counter. Hit HoJ JUST as the cast on Terrifying Screech is about to finish. You'll get feared and Sentinel Blast will get interrupted at the exact same moment. (If done properly, you won't even see Sentinel Blast's cast bar.)

And just keep an eye on what she's actually casting as she'll occasionally try to throw you off by casting Sonic Screech twice in a row.


Thanks for the info Invis.

I have a question tho', I currently use this spec. (1/3 Imp. Devo & 2/2 Imp HoJ w/ 2/2 DG).

How much mitigation do I lose for not having 3/3 Imp. Devo? Not certain how to figure out the exact amount of armor I'm losing. The + healing % is always covered by the copious amounts of druids we have, but I'm frequently the only Paladin. I consider DG to be a very powerful addition to DSac (the duration increase for SS is nice too), and prefer it to the static armor bonus. Is this terribly flawed? Am I giving up more than I realize? Any opinions appreciated.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Jonesy » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 am

Venoseth wrote:How much mitigation do I lose for not having 3/3 Imp. Devo? Not certain how to figure out the exact amount of armor I'm losing.


r10 Dev Aura = 1205 armour
With r1 Imp Dev Aura = 1410 armour
With r3 Imp Dev Aura = 1808 armour

Your sig says your armour from gear is 24689, so unbuffed except for devo aura you take about half a percent more damage. To put it into perspective, 1/3 -> 3/3 Imp Dev Aura cuts 120 damage off a 20k swing.
Last edited by Jonesy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby theckhd » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:44 am

Jonesy wrote:r10 Dev Aura = 1205 armour
With r1 Imp Dev Aura = 1410 armour
With r2 Imp Dev Aura = 1808 armour

Your sig says your armour from gear is 24689, so unbuffed except for devo aura you take about half a percent more damage. To put it into perspective, 1/3 -> 3/3 Imp Dev Aura cuts 120 damage off a 20k swing.

I think that should be r3 for 1808. 1205*1.5=1808.

Using my rule-of-thumb of 11 armor = 1 stamina for EH purposes:
r3 Devo aura is equivalent to roughly 55 STA,
r1 is about 19 sta.

So each point in Devo Aura is worth about 18.3 stamina worth of EH.
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Re: Usefulness of Improve HoJ in Ulduar

Postby Venoseth » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:44 pm

theckhd wrote:
Jonesy wrote:So each point in Devo Aura is worth about 18.3 stamina worth of EH.


On physical attacks only. Right?


Also, thanks for the information, when put in that light, I think that I feel justified in taking the points from it, even in a raiding environment; in that it doesn't seem like a huge benefit per talent-point. Unless I'm mis-reading what you fine gentlemen are saying? ^^
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