[25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Falibard » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:17 am

Treck wrote: Algalon big bang maybe?


I have used it as such. On one of our last attempts of the night the other tank went down and I instinctively picked it up and hit IBF >.> As long as you time it right AotD work fine for Big Bang.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby sfrog » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:27 am

We're having some trouble getting past the second tank transition in P3.

Makeup:
2 tanks : Prot Warrior & Prot Paladin
8 Melee DPS: 2 DKS, 2 Warriors, 2 Rogues, 1 Feral
9 Caster/Ranged DPS: 2 Boomkin, 1 Ele, 2 Locks, 2 Mages, 2 Hunters
7 Healers: 2 Paladins, 2 Priests, 1 Shaman, 2 Druids

I'm tanking Steelbreaker and for P1/2 am responsible for my own dispells. We're doing fine for P1/P2, it's surprising how quick we got those phases down. The problem is P3. Right now the plan is to have me tank for till I blow up then our Warrior takes over. I use my own CDs for Fusion Punches 1,2 (3 if I get a third), our Warrior uses his own the first one he takes, then the outside CDs start. Right now we have two issues that I can see. One is dispelling - I'm finding that I'm getting caught in GCD in P3 and not getting help when asked for it; also for some reason our Warrior isn't getting dispelled either. The second is we're not managing Cooldowns and switching healing well.

It's getting frustrating as we're constantly getting doing one of 2 things - getting to 60 and wiping because no one heals/dispells the Warrior when he takes over, or wiping at 35% when I take over for the same reason. Is there any macros/addons or anything that I can do to help out, spam for help, anything really? I don't think I can take another week of sub 35% wipes again without snapping at people.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby itankforcash » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:56 am

sfrog wrote:Makeup:
2 tanks : Prot Warrior & Prot Paladin
8 Melee DPS: 2 DKS, 2 Warriors, 2 Rogues, 1 Feral
9 Caster/Ranged DPS: 2 Boomkin, 1 Ele, 2 Locks, 2 Mages, 2 Hunters
7 Healers: 2 Paladins, 2 Priests, 1 Shaman, 2 Druids


This is your problem, if you need 7 healers for this fight, they must be pretty bad.

Try; 1 Paladin, 2 Priests (1 disc 1 holy) and 2 Druids. (Shaman instead of Disc priest possibly if you need totems for melee.)

Paladin and Disc priest on Steelbreaker tank, holy priest healing runemaster tank until phase 2 than help on raid.

I noticed you don't have a shadowpriest or Ret pala, so one of the healing priests need to dispel the warrior tank in phase 3 I guess.

Use the locks and hunters to soak in phase 3.

You should kill this boss in around 1 min 30secs in phase 3 if your dps is fine.

(Did it in 1 min last week I died as soon as the boss died)
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Rehlachs » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:22 am

amh wrote:- Does Mimiron melee whilst channeling Plasma? Either way, shaving 40%++ off a 20k tick > taking a few guaranteed melee hits.


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=64529

It won't attack while it is casting Plasma Blast, but it will continue attacking when the cast is finished and the plasma ray thingy is hurting you.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby sfrog » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:01 am

itankforcash wrote:
This is your problem, if you need 7 healers for this fight, they must be pretty bad.

Try; 1 Paladin, 2 Priests (1 disc 1 holy) and 2 Druids. (Shaman instead of Disc priest possibly if you need totems for melee.)

Paladin and Disc priest on Steelbreaker tank, holy priest healing runemaster tank until phase 2 than help on raid.

I noticed you don't have a shadowpriest or Ret pala, so one of the healing priests need to dispel the warrior tank in phase 3 I guess.

Use the locks and hunters to soak in phase 3.

You should kill this boss in around 1 min 30secs in phase 3 if your dps is fine.

(Did it in 1 min last week I died as soon as the boss died)


The DPS is fine - amazing even. A couple of attempts we've gotten 50-52% before I die. Normally we'd have a Spriest or Ret Paladin but neither have shown up, so a healing priest is supposed to help out on dispells.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Seloei » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:08 pm

how many paladins / priests do you run in that raid? How many of them are healing?
Make one of them be the dispel bot the moment he sees the DBM or Bigwigs warning for fusion punch he just spasm cleanse and nothing else on the tank
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby itankforcash » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:56 am

sfrog wrote:The DPS is fine - amazing even. A couple of attempts we've gotten 50-52% before I die.


Thats not amazing, when you die that goes back up to like 60%ish++ anyway, than heroism is gone and the dps becomes average, you're looking at a 4th transition maybe which is extremely heavy raid damage, steelbreakers damage has been nerfed now so you might be able to survive his hits, but it's a lot safer to drop 2 healers, get 2 more dps, than kill him in 2 transitions.

2 Raid healers, 1 Soaker healer and 2 Tank healers for P3.

Just incase you're looking for a benchmark, our average dps when the first tank dies in P3 is about 35-40%.

Our best is 28%, when we killed him in 1 transition.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Joanadark » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:06 am

Seloei wrote:how many paladins / priests do you run in that raid? How many of them are healing?
Make one of them be the dispel bot the moment he sees the DBM or Bigwigs warning for fusion punch he just spasm cleanse and nothing else on the tank


If your tank healers are halfway intelligent, they're supposed to be timing heal casts with the Fusion Punch cast. All you have to do as a Holy paladin is correctly time a Holy Light to go off right as the Fusion Punch does, and hit your cleanse key during the Holy Light's casting time to snipe a cleanse in the same timestamp as the heal landing.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Falibard » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:32 am

Falibard wrote:
Treck wrote: Algalon big bang maybe?


I have used it as such. On one of our last attempts of the night the other tank went down and I instinctively picked it up and hit IBF >.> As long as you time it right AotD work fine for Big Bang.


Just wanted to add that I used AotD on Steelbreaker this week and actually looked at what he was hitting more while I was channeling and the answer is ~14k.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:43 am

Joanadark wrote:
Seloei wrote:how many paladins / priests do you run in that raid? How many of them are healing?
Make one of them be the dispel bot the moment he sees the DBM or Bigwigs warning for fusion punch he just spasm cleanse and nothing else on the tank


If your tank healers are halfway intelligent, they're supposed to be timing heal casts with the Fusion Punch cast. All you have to do as a Holy paladin is correctly time a Holy Light to go off right as the Fusion Punch does, and hit your cleanse key during the Holy Light's casting time to snipe a cleanse in the same timestamp as the heal landing.

Or as we did, assume a Paladin tanks Steelbreaker.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:13 am

I often tank runemaster, and dispel whoever is tanking steelbreaker.

Its not like I can do anything useful other than SoL, JoL, Holy Shield, Sacred shield. while on runemaster, since all damage is lost when steelbreaker dies. So no reason not to prioritise dispels.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby loeni » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:31 pm

We just assigned the ret to cleansing fusion punches after p1 in order to guarantee that a healer would never have to choose between finishing a cast and dispelling, and the dps cost to me for the dispelling is less than for any other dps class that could do the job in my place.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Rainx » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:58 am

loeni wrote:We just assigned the ret to cleansing fusion punches after p1 in order to guarantee that a healer would never have to choose between finishing a cast and dispelling, and the dps cost to me for the dispelling is less than for any other dps class that could do the job in my place.



Coming from a healing point of view, if they can't use dbm to look for an incoming fusion puch shield, then dispel as a disc priest, holy priest or even a paladin, then your group probably should not be doing this until you get new healers.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Noravis » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:39 am

I am the Main Tank of my guild and we have Hard mode IC 25 man on farm we use myself a prot pally and a DK tank.

I ALWAYS tank Steelbreaker during P1 & P2 while the DK tanks Brundir and Molgeim at the same time.

My main priority outside of building gradual threat through phases 1 & 2 its also to cleanse myself. We start with 2 healers on me in p1 with me doing all cleanses and 3 healers on me in p2. The healers we use are 1 Pally, 1 Priest, 1 Druid/Shammy on me.

P3 is a little tricky but actually if you do it the way we do its extremely easy to manage the healing. We have the entire group stack on Steelbreaker during P3 right under him minus the tank and 3 people to soak the high voltages. This way everyone just gets druid AoE heals.

The advantage to having me tank first is that I will be up for the initial tanking in p3 and the 2nd transition. The DK is up for the 1st and 3rd transition. Why is this beneficial? Simple, I don't have the cooldowns that a Blood DK does. So when I tank intially in p1 I just use monarch crab. When I taunt for the 2nd tank transition i pop heart of iron immediately as i taunt. Wait for it to wear off and pop monarch crab. Since I will only be alive for 2 fusion punches I use 1 pain suppresion/Hand of Sacrifice/Divine Sacrifice during the first fusion punch and the 2nd fusion punch i use Divine Protection to mitigate the damage even more.

Also using this stack up strategy has 1 disadvantage, as the tanks die, everyone in the raid will take more constant damage which really is demanding on healers. The way we counter act this is to bring 2 ret pallies both spec'd with Divine Sacrifice. We time it perfectly to help out the healers during the 2nd & 3rd tank transitions.

As for cleansing in P3 my main priority is still to cleanse during fusion punches followed by doing damage. When the DK tanks we have our 2 ret pallies main focus on the cleansing.

This strategy is by far the most effective against this hard mode we tried many different strategies and then someone in the raid mentioned doing this and it was the optimal way to handle the encounter. It turns the hard mode phase into a straight tank and spank and DPS race.

For anyone who has questions on how to tank this as a pally, strategy, raid composition, or how to handle the tank transitions seamlessly. Send me a PM or e-mail me.

I hopefully will have a video of this in the future from my PoV as a Prot Pally tank. I have other hard mode kills that I have made and will be posting are XT-002, Hodir, and Thorim.

My guild is currently working on Vezax HM and Mimiron HM so videos of that will be coming in the future.
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[25] IC Hard Mode

Postby kanst » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:15 am

Sorry if this has all been discussed before, I couldnt find anything.

My guild is working on Iron Council hard mode, and I must say the wipes are getting soul crushing. We have spent 5 hours wiping and I just wanted to check some stuff to see if there is something we are just missing.

We kill runemaster first, then the spinny dude, the obviously the big dude. I tank Steelbreaker by the door, I cleanse fusion punch myself and avoid the rune of powers.
-First odd observation, if he is in a rune and starts casting fusion punch, if I run away sometimes he smacks a random caster.
The first phase is no issue, in the second phase we group up and tank Steelbreaker and the other dude back to back about 10-15 yards apart, ranged stand on my head in melee range of steelbrekaer, we split 3 hunters out away from the raid to absorb the nature debuff.
-Is there a class that would be better at soaking this?
-How many healers should be watching those people?
-Do you split them all to one side or spread on both sides of the bosses?

When the second guy is getting low, our warrior taunts steelbreaker and I cleanse fusion punch off him, when he dies the other warrior taunts and I do the same.
-How hard should fusion punch hit with 1 tank dead? We had our second tank eat a 48k fusion punch, I browsed the wws and it didnt seem like he had the nature debuff

I taunt third and pop my cooldowns on the taunt, this is where it gets nasty.
-Do you chain cooldowns on the third tank, steelbreaker hits really hard at this pt
-What do you do about raid healing, that dot seems to hit really hard at this point

And some general questions:
-How many tanks/healers do you use?
-Are there healers who are better at this fight then others?
-How many tank deaths should we have on a good kill?
-When do you heros?
-How do you divide your healers between the different jobs?

Thanks for any help you can give, this fight is frustrating me, we spend 5 minutes going through phase 1 and 2 perfect and then fail on phase 3 and its getting demoralizing.
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