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How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Kelaan » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:37 am

I moved this to the Off-spec forum, as it's more "how can I be better" than a comment on Daemonym's benchmarks themselves.

daemonym wrote:Generic dps benchmarks by gear level:
Only gear from heroics and craftables: 2k to 2.5k dps
Mix of 10m, heroic, boe craftables, EoH epics: 3k to 3.5k dps
Mix of 10/25m drops: 3.5k to 4.5k dps
Full 25m gear: 4.8k to 5k dps (no exceptions)
Best in slot tier 7.5 or tier 8: 5.5k to 6k dps (no exceptions)


Is that T7 or T8 10-man gear? Is it a significant difference? Is that while raid-buffed or not, in a 10 or 25-man raid? I ask this because, while my gear is ostensibly good, my single target DPS doesn't seem to be that good... and yet, I try to keep good proportions of dps time to idle time (if swapping targets or needing to move), and am pretty sure I am doing the FCFS correctly. I feel like there's something lacking, but I haven't been able to figure out what it is. I want to say that it's because my gear -- all things other DPS people have passed on -- is not BIS, and generally a tier behind, but that's still an excuse.

How can I best compare my performance with other ret paladins in my raid, while accounting for differences in gear? E.g, I don't have the funds to go get the DMC:Greatness yet (though I am saving for it), and don't yet have spare badges for some of the EoV items. Similarly, I'm roughly last in line for Ulduar gears, in that I am not a main-spec DPS person. So, I want to learn how to take the gear out of the equation, as much as possible.

When I look at our World of Logs records for the very few fights I get to be DPS for (Razorscale, Auraiya, Hodir), they seem to be either fights with bunches of AOE, or with random ++damage mechanics (Hodir) which make it hard to either put myself on an equal footing (Hodir, if I don't get a cloud) or even figure out my single-target damage (since DS/Cons inflate my damage a bunch on Auraiya, it seems). My per-ability breakdown in Recount seems similar to the others, so I am wondering if I am either using a different handling of "CS will be off CD during the next GCD, do I wait?" than they are, or if I am just making mistakes here and there. I am not sure how to determine whether it's a systemic problem, or merely poor execution of a good system, basically.

I think that my best bet for comparing performance is to look at the actual count of each ability's use (for me and the other rets), and treat the other ret paladins as if they had identical gear and thus identical damage for each ability. Then, I can just use an average value for each ability's damage, and treat that as our normalized damage. (Does that seem like a defensible way to do it?) Unfortunately, Recount seems to be the only place I can find that, and I've not found how to save Recount's data. Will I pretty much need to make my own WWS logs?
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby andx » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:22 am

I too am curious because when i saw that post concerning dps benchmarks i looked at my 25naxx/uld10 geared pally and allowed a tear to roll down my cheek as i looked at my 3.2k dps. I'll post armory links when i get home from work and what not. I'm excited to see where this thread goes.


Andx


Alî of coilfang is my pally prolly in my tank gear or some werid set atm tho
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Shoju » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:11 am

Lists like that are terrible to try and gauge your DPS off of. I'm in a mix of Naxx10 / Uld10, and my dps can very wildly fight to fight night to night.

Synergy is a HUGE key. Best I've been able to do on Patchwerk was before I got some of my current gear, and I pulled 4950dps. I also had some decent synergy. The last time I went to the punching bag, I was the ONLY melee, with better gear, and I was only able to do 4280. Same use of Cooldowns, Same buff food, Same Flask. No Warrior/Rogue for armor Debuff, No ENH Shaman/Marks Hunter, NOTHING.

I am able to hit 4k pretty regularly on single target bosses in Uld buffed, flasked, etc with 'moderate' synergy. I can crack 7-8k during heart phases on XT with the same amount of synergy and all cooldowns blown.

Give me a link to your armory, and I will take a look. Let me know if you are running 10/25 man stuff, and what kind of food you normally use.
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:19 pm

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... l&n=kelaan
Currently in tanking spec/gear, though. I'll try and log in ret gear again like I was a few days ago.
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Shoju » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:34 am

Kelaan wrote:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hyjal&n=kelaan
Currently in tanking spec/gear, though. I'll try and log in ret gear again like I was a few days ago.


I would say in gear like that you should probably be above 3k most of the time, even on movement based fights. Stand and blow fights like patch, even with little synergy, you should be able to crack 4k dps.

Make sure that you are prioritizing your FCFS appropriately
Make sure that you are timining Wings with Bloodlust, trinket procs if possible.
Make sure that you aren't going OOM. If you are going OOM, you aren't using DP correctly
You could stand to lose a little hit as a dranei, but you aren't gemmed for it or enchanted for it, so not a big deal (I'm currently at something stupid like 340 hit because of the stupidity of Ulduar gear itemization)

Improved Blessing of Might would be nice. Never rely on a warrior to keep Battle shout up all the time.

Your glyphs are..... not right.

Until 3.2 I'm running with
Judgement
Exorcism
Consecration

You are losing a fair amount of damage due to your glyphs.

My glyphs give me:

10% more judgement damage
20% more exorcism damage
2 more ticks of consecration

You glyphs do NOTHING to up your dps. If I were you, I would adjust glyphs first, and see what that does to your dps.

And unless you are right on top of the hand mounted pyro rocket CD you are losing DPS there as well. You are losing some crit or haste (whatever you would enchant normally) by going with the flexweave.
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:12 am

Sweet - thanks :)
In 3.2, which will you replace (I presume) with the SoV glyph?

Judgement is 10-12% of my overall DPS. The glyph would increase that by 10%, so I'd gain ... 1-1.2% damage.
Exorcism is 4% of my damage. If the cons glyph lets me get less conflicts, I might get it up to 8% ... which means that the Exo glyph would give me another 1-1.6% damage.

Is 2-3% damage significant? I agree it's better than nothing but I don't see that having a noticeable effect on my DPS. The Consecration glyph, though, could yield both a better uptime and less conflicts with other things. I'll make that a priority and then see about replacing other glyphs with dps ones too. (:
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Shoju » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:50 pm

I will probably start by trying to replace the Exo glyph. It's not much of my damage now, and if the vengeace glyph goes live like it is now, I will most assuredly be going with it. Cons is a better mana saving glyph than the 2 that you currently have. Those extra 2 seconds of not laying consecrate add up when they cost of the spell is so brutal
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:26 pm

FWIW, I consider Daemonym's numbers to be fairly reasonable. I recall doing 4.6k on Patch with less than BiS Naxx25 gear. Definitely before I got the 226 OS2D helm and 226 Maly quest neck. Before 3.1.

Raid buffs are huge, and can dramatically change our output. That said, there is a ton of room for individual performance to affect our numbers as well, even if our combat system is "easy.". The 2nd best geared Ret in my guild has been baffled for months as to why he's about 1500 DPS behind me, where Rawr suggests the "gear gap" is only 200 DPS. He knows about Baelor's excellent Ret FAQ, so he has the theory. Somewhere between there and Recount, there's a disconnect.
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Re: How can I compare (and improve) my performance?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:48 pm

Shoju wrote:Cons is a better mana saving glyph than the 2 that you currently have. Those extra 2 seconds of not laying consecrate add up when they cost of the spell is so brutal

Wow, I hadn't even thought of that. Thanks!

Fedaykin98 wrote:there is a ton of room for individual performance to affect our numbers as well... Somewhere between there and Recount, there's a disconnect.

That's an excellent way to describe how I feel about my performance. :D Now that my gear is more-sorted than it was before (short of buying a DMC:G), I am hopeing to figure out how to improve technique.
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