[pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

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[pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Shoju » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:11 am

I put off leveling my mage when 3.1 dropped as we started raiding and I figured that one of our estranged mages would come back to the raiding body of the guild. Well, here we are, and there are still 0 raiding mages in the guild.

I'm leveling my mage with a friend, and we're closing in on 77, and I'm having a blast. I have even giving thought of hanging the plate up in the closet when the mage gets to 80 and making it my main. I love my paladin, but I think that it would be better for the guild if I swapped.

Problem is, I've been frost from 1-77 except for 70-71 where I goofed off with Arcane.

Is Frost REALLY that far behind in PVE? Would it be possible to run a 18/0/53 Torment the Weak style build and do competitive DPS? Right now, with my mage's horrid spec and meh gear, I'm pulling off 9-950 DPS while questing, 11-1200 DPS in a 5 man, 13-1500 with cooldowns and whatnot blown.

If I don't go frost, would it be possible to go Arcane? If you haven't noticed, I have a REAL aversion to Fire, and Frostfire Bolt. It's probably my least favorite thing that blizzard released in wotlk. If Frost is too low, and Arcane is viable, what would be a viable Arcane Spec? 56/0/15 is my best guess at something for Arcane, but really, I'm not sure.

What is respectable Patchwerk (10) dps to shoot for in the beginning and when 'ready' for Uld? My guild doesn't have any requirements for DPS in raids, we try and be supportive and fix problems as they arrive. I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should expect.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Doogiehowser » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:48 pm

I know that Arcane is certainly viable, especially early on in your gearing since you can get both talents that help with your hit rating and you can focus more on your +spell damage.

The spec you linked for Arcane looks pretty close. My only suggestion would for you to take a look at taking Incineration (+6% crit to Arcane Blast - your primary nuke) and Arcane Stability (3 of 5 would do - helps with pushback). You can lose a point in Ice Shards since you only need 5 to get down to the third tier. Piercing Ice won't be needed either since you're spamming Arcane only spells.

There are four glyphs

Glyph of Arcane Blast
Glyph of Molten Armor or Glyph of Mage Armor
Glyph of Arcane Missiles

Rotation is something like

Arcane Blast x 3, (Missle Barrage if proc'd), Arcane Barrage rinse and repeat

Pop Presence of Mind before your third Arcane Blast

As for dps requirements, others might have a better read on that but I've always seen mages on "stand and deliver" fights to be at or near the top, even when they are outgeared.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:56 pm

Unfortunately, frost really is "that far behind" in PvE right now.....estimates I've seen recently put it 10-20% behind the top DPS specs. Personally I love fire/frostfire so I don't know al that much about Arcane, but I do know that the cookie cutter spec is 57/3/11....I'm sure you can look up the exact spec easily enough.

One key difference I know for arcane between TBC and WotLK is that Arcane no longer uses frostbolt for filler, so talent which boost frost damage aren't particularly important for them.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Dakiros » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:41 am

You're probably going to lag a bit behind other mages if you start off with an arcane spec, its fairly gear dependent. But you can definitely do better DPS with it than with frost and if you are that set against FFB it would be a good choice for you.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Shoju » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:14 am

Awesome. Thanks for the help. I hit 77 last night, and I'm hoping to be 80 by the weekend. If I can do that, I will probably try and get some heroics / crafted stuff and get into raiding next week on an off night with him. Maybe I can luck out and get a weapon out of naxx before I get him 25 champ seals.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Shoju » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:08 am

Dinged 80 on my mage a week ago, went through a couple of Arcane Specs, and I'm getting pretty happy with the one I have. I need to swap the '2' talents points in the first tier of the tree. I didn't think that aggro would be much of a problem since I get 130% of the tanks before I pull, and Mirror Image, and Invis. Well, Turns out, I need it at least in heroics, and trash.

My Mage

As you can see, I'm wearing a lot of 'healer' gear as a couple of mages said. I went on a pug naxx the day after I hit 80, and was the only clothy looking for upgrades. Everyone else was just there to stockpile eoh for the patch. I'm closing in on the emblems to get the sundial, and I'm going to pick up a DMC:Illusion as well. I will swap to the MotWP for boss fights when I don't have an SP or Moonkin to get me hit capped.


New round of questions. As arcane, I've been Doing ABX3, and if Missile Barrage procs on one of the first 2, I have been following that up with the missile barrage, if it doesn't proc on the first 2, I've been using arcane barrage.

1.) Is it worth the 'pause' in casting to see if the 3rd blast procs mb? or should I just keep moving the way I am. I'm able to get 3k dps in heroics on bosses with little problem now, I'm just trying to maximize my damage, and wasn't sure if the lull was worth the chance.

2.) With the gear that I've accquired, I've glyphed Molten armor and I'm getting 7.5% crit from it now. Is it a feasable strategy to keep gearing this way? I know some mages shun non+hit spirit cloth as much as possible, but I'm not seeing any reason to do so once I have the hit covered. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

3.) Focus Magic. Oh, the debates over focus magic. Who knew that so many people want the Focus Magic buff? Unless I'm able to swap it with another mage, I've been giving it to Pally Healers, and other crit classes, even if they are healers. Other caster DPS (Aff. Lock, SP, MK) have grumbled about this. What is the normal away to handle this? I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I was just putting it on the Holy Pally / FFB mage (when available) because they are so crit heavy.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Doogiehowser » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:08 am

Shoju wrote:Dinged 80 on my mage a week ago, went through a couple of Arcane Specs, and I'm getting pretty happy with the one I have. I need to swap the '2' talents points in the first tier of the tree. I didn't think that aggro would be much of a problem since I get 130% of the tanks before I pull, and Mirror Image, and Invis. Well, Turns out, I need it at least in heroics, and trash.

[url=http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=terenas&n=maredeus]My Mage


As you can see, I'm wearing a lot of 'healer' gear as a couple of mages said. I went on a pug naxx the day after I hit 80, and was the only clothy looking for upgrades. Everyone else was just there to stockpile eoh for the patch. I'm closing in on the emblems to get the sundial, and I'm going to pick up a DMC:Illusion as well. I will swap to the MotWP for boss fights when I don't have an SP or Moonkin to get me hit capped.


New round of questions. As arcane, I've been Doing ABX3, and if Missile Barrage procs on one of the first 2, I have been following that up with the missile barrage, if it doesn't proc on the first 2, I've been using arcane barrage.

1.) Is it worth the 'pause' in casting to see if the 3rd blast procs mb? or should I just keep moving the way I am. I'm able to get 3k dps in heroics on bosses with little problem now, I'm just trying to maximize my damage, and wasn't sure if the lull was worth the chance.

2.) With the gear that I've accquired, I've glyphed Molten armor and I'm getting 7.5% crit from it now. Is it a feasable strategy to keep gearing this way? I know some mages shun non+hit spirit cloth as much as possible, but I'm not seeing any reason to do so once I have the hit covered. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

3.) Focus Magic. Oh, the debates over focus magic. Who knew that so many people want the Focus Magic buff? Unless I'm able to swap it with another mage, I've been giving it to Pally Healers, and other crit classes, even if they are healers. Other caster DPS (Aff. Lock, SP, MK) have grumbled about this. What is the normal away to handle this? I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I was just putting it on the Holy Pally / FFB mage (when available) because they are so crit heavy.[/quote]

Congrats on getting to 80. I'm close to 77 and it still feels an eternity away.

1) No, it's not worth it to pause to see if it procs. Finish your ABx3. If you are using your MBarr after only 2 Arcane Blasts, you're sacrificing dps.

Use MBarr at the following: 1) After three stacks of AB, 2) Prior to having a AB Stack, or 3) If ABarr procs it. You have plenty of time to use your MBarr proc even if it procs on the first Arcane Blast. MBarr always comes in front of the ABarr though if it has proc'd.

2) I think it depends on what is being considered as a possible upgrade. Rawr does a really nice job of this but I find myself not actively seeking out spirit. If it's there, it's great. If not, I won't sweat it. However, I don't run with Molten Armor yet due to mana issues at my gear level. I think others may have more insight on this. Here are the weightings/numbers I've been working with but mileage can vary (assuming hit capped).

intellect spirit spell power crit haste

0.74 0.58 1.45 0.79 1.35

3) I'm deferring on this one because I still don't know the right answer. I'm with you since a holy pally will keep this buff up on you all the time. A Frostbolt/Fire spec'd mage will love you for it will help proc Hot Streak. If someone has a good argument, I'm all ears.

Edit: I would mention that Glyph of Mirror Image isn't as strong as Glyph of Arcane Missles. The guys over at EJ have Missles ahead of Mirror Image. Just something to think about.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Earantur » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:26 am

I believe Holy Pallys and Ele Shamans will keep the crit buff up for you as much as possible.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Shoju » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Thanks for the help.

I found the best way to pad my xp was the tournament. You can start doing it at 77 and I was able to save myself mats/gold by getting the hit sword from the tourney which I got a day before I hit 80. I didn't push as hard as I could through those last levels, probably because I new I wanted to save gold, and I would be pressed to make the spell blade if I hit 80 before i had it.

Yeah, I've been toying around to see which one I like better. Missiles is really nice, I'm probably going to go back to it, as the extra image just isn't as cool as I thought it would be when I switched.

I've been trying to keep Focus Magic on FFB mages, Holy Paladins, and when I see an ele shaman an ele shaman.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Doogiehowser » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:59 pm

That's great about your DPS at your gear level. That makes me very hopeful about my own mage. I probably just need to learn how to manage my cooldowns better.

I definitely have the Tournament on my checklist when I hit 77. I'll be sure to hit that hard so I can get those nice weapons.

Keep us updated Shoju.
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Re: [pve-mage] Getting ready to hit 80 on my mage, have some Q's

Postby Shoju » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:21 pm

It really is all about managing your cooldowns. I have found that by popping Arcane Power and Icy Veins on an AoE pull and blizzarding is just RIDICULOUS amounts of DPS.

I've been working on boss pulls with PoM-ing first and then busting Mirror Image, Icy Veins, and Arcane Power so that I can use PoM (it's linked to Arcane Power CD for obvious Reasons). One of the biggest things that I have found is getting several Macro's together. I have 4 macros, each varying degrees of 'burst'. Trinkets, and various cooldowns, with the OMG button hitting

Trinket
Arcane Power
Icy Veins
Mirror Image

If you have a tank that can hold aggro over you this will be absolutely fantastic DPS. I have been toying around to see if I need the threat redux talent, and I have to say, even with Mirror Image cutting your threat, and a tank knowing to taunt at the right time, I have needed to block when the MI's die.

I'm hoping to get some WoL data this week from some raids this week. I will post it if I'm able to get into something.
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