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[10] Algalon

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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby PsiVen » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:46 pm

I don't know how to use WoL to look at your logs, but if you're getting 8 hits in a row with a black hole explosion in the middle, your healers are going to have a hell of a time keeping you alive. There's not much that can be done about that, honestly. In general though: Make sure you're using your 2 tanks in the way that allows you to chain the most cooldowns and take the least damage (a paladin should be tanking as much as possible, shadow priests should be taking Bang when possible, etc.). Make sure your healers are spread out enough that no two healers ever have to move for cosmic smash, and make sure AF/Insp have the highest possible uptime on the tank (including transitions).
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby fafhrd » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:47 am

Psiven,

I've been watching your Alg10 video (http://www.wegame.com/watch/IA_vs_Algalon/) and I'm wondering what if anything sneaky you're doing to pull off that much DPS (other than having very good DPSers, which you probably do) - you have him at 67% before the first bang, most other first kills seem to have him 76-73% at that point :o

Maybe most surprising of all, your top 2 dps are a combat rogue and enhancement shaman, but there doesn't seem to be a major armor debuff on the boss since I don't see the rogue EAing.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:22 pm

Algalon has extremely low armor anyway, so physical DPS classes with decent armor penetration do rediculous damage to him.
Thats why many of the first guilds stacked feral druids.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby fafhrd » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:40 pm

Heard that, but as far as anyone has shown, he has the same armor as all other ulduar bosses (which matches blizzard's current balancing of ArP vs other stats depending on whatever their current crazy iteration of the arp formula is - i forget whether it's currently yielding more DPS per point on lower armor targets than high).
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:07 pm

well ranged dps also have some movement to avoid cosmic smashes, which is a dps loss. Melee can move without penalty for the most part.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby fafhrd » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:23 pm

Cool, but they're still well ahead of every other first kill video I've seen, most of which also have brought some melee dps with equal or better buff support. What am I missing, other than people just being really good, or really lucky? I notice our tanks are usually a fair bit lower in DPS than theirs, but that doesn't seem like a problem that many people would have.

We're not actually behind on DPS, usually wiping to tanks dropping dead, but I can't do much on that front so I'm curious about strats that increase DPS noticeably - saw another group just dps stars partially to give them a health differential, then ignore them and let alg kill them while all DPS burnt the boss. Chaotic, but fast!
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:20 am

Our first kill was about 5 sec or so into enrage with 2 ppl still alive (one DPS died at 80%), our last kill wasnt that bad with the dps since everyone was alive. To manage enrage you gotta get off 25% before every big bang.
But would it be more benefitial to use hero on the pull? Since then youll have a lot of time when you dont have to move, deal with stars or anything really, we have been using it after the 3rd big bang as i think a lot of ppl are, but then you might not get as much from hero as in the start?
It might only be worth it if youve got issues with enrage timer, if the enrage isnt a problem but survival is, hero later to help healers and such might be better maybe.
We also had me and a Feral tanking, was nice doing it without our DK, and the healers didnt complain to much.
Only differance was that when we had the DK tanking he just taunted and said on vent, when the druid did the same she got splatted, so we always had a 3sec countown for healers to prepare.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:28 am

But would it be more benefitial to use hero on the pull? Since then youll have a lot of time when you dont have to move, deal with stars or anything really, we have been using it after the 3rd big bang as i think a lot of ppl are, but then you might not get as much from hero as in the start?


Every guild I know of heros on the pull. The only reason not to is if its a 10-man group and you dont want to "waste" heroism on a bad attempt where someone makes an unrecoverable mistake then hero is down for the next try.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Treck » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 am

Joanadark wrote:Every guild I know of heros on the pull. The only reason not to is if its a 10-man group and you dont want to "waste" heroism on a bad attempt where someone makes an unrecoverable mistake then hero is down for the next try.


Yeh, ive been asking for it in the start, its not like threat is a problem with a paladin tank on that fight but the others wants it in the end.
Its not like we have a problems with shamans, our guild for some reason always runs with 3 shamans in 10mans.. xD
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:31 am

If thats the case, DPS-wise you really really should be running Hero a couple seconds after the pull.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby fafhrd » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:25 am

We, uh, currently have 0 shamans for alg10 >.>
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:10 am

I don't know what to say about that. Certainly nothing you probably haven't said to yourself already. Best of luck though. Stack more feral druids.

Edit: You know, actually, upon thinking about it a second time you probably arent in as bad shape without heroism at all as firsy seems. Unless people actually DIE early, i've never seen the DPS check actually be a problem meeting in the 10-man version.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby fafhrd » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:02 am

I'm not in a good position to comment about the difference bringing a shaman makes because I'm the one they switched the shaman out for. As I said though, we seem to be meeting the DPS benchmarks up til the point where Something Goes Wrong. I'm usually the highest DPS, and the shaman was being forced to play an enhancement offspec for this fight that she's not very well geared for, so there may not be any net DPS loss - all her DPS buffs other than windfury on the rogue and heroism on everyone are already provided by others. If our DK OT were frost instead of blood we'd have windfury too, but I don't know what that switch entails wrt his tanking.

Was poring over our composition the other day, and was disconcerted to realize that Curse of elements in a 10 man is almost as important a buff to hunter dps as sunder armor - and in our case CoE is likely the larger raid benefit by a lot (am I correct in thinking sunder doesn't do much of anything for a prot-pally?). Going to let the rogue go back to not exposing pre-phase-3, bring demo-shouting pets from both hunters instead of just one so the lock can stop CoWing except when going into a big bang, and hopefully net higher DPS from everyone.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:45 am

we seem to be meeting the DPS benchmarks up til the point where Something Goes Wrong.

haha, I like how you phrased this.
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Re: [10] Algalon

Postby Splug » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:19 am

I don't think we had a shaman in the raid until the second or third time we killed him. We just couldn't fit another healer in, and the dps shaman don't like to log in on 10-man nights. It's certainly doable without bloodlust; the timer's lenient until you're 8/9-manning him. As for CoE, I usually end up as unholy for the fight to cover exactly that. Bone shield is a strong cooldown for the encounter too, due to the half-time tanking increasing its uptime.

The biggest problem for us was realizing that the druid takes less damage because he's keeping demoralizing roar up when he starts tanking, and that "cat is not b 4 Dbuff." Once that was corrected, we killed him 2-3 pulls later.

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