2/2 SA build

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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Wolvar » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:37 pm

Woops, thanks for the correction, I didn't multiply by 5.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby badgermonkey » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:15 pm

Incidentally, I'm the least tactful person I know. A while back when an officer palatank complained on trash I was overaggroing him (we weren't assigned to specific trash, just both tank a big pile of stuff in an AOE death), telling me I MUST be taunting every single mob. My reply was "Omen has me at 1.5k more TPS than you, obviously the issue is your rotation is crap compared to mine".

He threw a hissy fit and logged off, and put in that I should be dealt with, I posted the 969 rotation along with math and theory from here on our class forums, none of the other officership/leadership questioned me further on it.

Sometimes, it's possible to simply be right. I will not compromise for bad or misinformed players. If they have an issue with it that prevents them playing with me, then either they or me can find somewhere else. I won't tell them what to do - they can play how the want, but I will play at my full potential.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Argali » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:51 pm

badgermonkey wrote:Incidentally, I'm the least tactful person I know. A while back when an officer palatank complained on trash I was overaggroing him (we weren't assigned to specific trash, just both tank a big pile of stuff in an AOE death), telling me I MUST be taunting every single mob. My reply was "Omen has me at 1.5k more TPS than you, obviously the issue is your rotation is crap compared to mine".

He threw a hissy fit and logged off, and put in that I should be dealt with, I posted the 969 rotation along with math and theory from here on our class forums, none of the other officership/leadership questioned me further on it.

Sometimes, it's possible to simply be right. I will not compromise for bad or misinformed players. If they have an issue with it that prevents them playing with me, then either they or me can find somewhere else. I won't tell them what to do - they can play how the want, but I will play at my full potential.


I do that too, and it's earned me some enemies, and a reputation in some parts. People don't like being told they're retards.

Unfortunately, the OP is new in the guild, and it's usually not a good idea to be blunt, until you get an idea of how people are going to react.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Mert » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:56 am

Koatanga wrote:I have not used it in the Arena on Thorim yet, but I anticipate issues there.


Which is precicely why this is such a frustration for folk - you would have precicely zero issues whatsoever running BoSanc in place of BoW on Thorim Arena. Four million trash mobs all smashing their face into your shield or having their attacks avoided means infinite mana. Moreso than just about anything else, Thorim is perfect for the buff.

I do completely understand about you not wanting to rock the boat and your point about being able to collect data makes some sense, but I simply cannot think of what else to suggest. I'll gladly send you a PM you can copy/paste to your guild so they can read that instead of this thread? I'm perfectly capable of being polite, even if I do think your guild is most assuredly wrong on the issue.

Your thread was about how you can make a non-BoSanc spec work and, unfortunately, the short answer is that you can't really and even though you can get close, you're giving up a lot of other useful talents in order to do so. You're obviously very keen on your new guild and you obviously like the people there but if you and your guild are to reach their full potential then you need to find some way to address this with them. I'm not personally convinced that waiting is the best move - bring it up with the accompanying mathematics and if they remain skeptical then ask them to try it for one raid - perhaps an off-night 10-man or Naxx run or something. If they still refuse then your best bet is probably to ask to be the guy put on Wisdom rather than Kings so you can at least put a small Sanctuary on yourself.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby SellassieTanks » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:54 am

Socratic Method FTW

"Socratic method: is a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate rational thinking and to illuminate ideas"

You are a paladin tank....Being a paladin tank has always been highly dependent on the knowledge of the adventure that has been pally tanking, and if you properly present your case, the knowledge you possess will shine. Ask the leadership where their information comes from, ask them to compare the numbers (numbers tend to be a nice even playing ground) between their school of thought and yours, ask them why your theory provides less benefit (which once reason and rationalized thought are employed, the math will blatantly show the truth of the matter. Being you are right) doing this you don't have to be pushy or overbearing, just a gentle guide to the undeniable truth. ...You are a tank, and if you are any good in you performance people will listen to you...

The real question is....Do you want to tank? or do you want the RL to tank for you? If you don't stand up and bear witness to your srengths, then you may as well just bind all of your spells to the RL's screen.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Solare » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:45 am

Solare wrote:I agree with Theck.

Fix't. I've been calling you 'Theck,' not 'Heck.' :lol:
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Ferrix » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:44 pm

I think most people understand that you are new to the guild, and don't want to rock the boat, but in your situation, if your guild means to go far in any raids, fixing the general bad attitude is required. Having the other paladin MT give up 3% is holding your guild back, but him forcing all other paladins to make the exact same mistake (and its been established why its a mistake) is just horrible. In a progression guild, you may need to get used to being the one to point out things like that, because blindly following someone into doing something you know is wrong, doesn't help anyone in the long run. If the other pally was using a spellpower weapon, and told you to use one too, would you smile politely and do it?

You said this guy is simply used to tanking a certain way, but thats no excuse for anyone to cater to his whims. Also, if he's knowledgeable enough to know that he shouldn't be using a spellpower weapon anymore, then he should also know BoS is better, because they were all changed around the same time.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Dzzope » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:59 pm

Where you wouldn't link to this thread.. I would.. tell the people in charge to read it.. If they blame you for any bad-mouthing of your guild then your better off not in it..

If they don't and have a slight understanding of the interwebz and how many decide to communicate their arguments feelings or disapproval (usually by personal attacks of calling people retarded) then this thread has shown:

A.) That you were trying to make the best spec possible that works with their current vet tankadin (who sounds like the kind of person that would think tankadins need a sp MH for aggro).

B.) How passionately (in their own insulting way) many of the people here replied to how sub optimal the use of kings, wis and might is over sanc, kings +1..

C.) The math and explanations of why Bsanc is far superior than to compromise your spec to suit the guilds(vet tank's) preference of not using it.

D.) The posts of people advising you of how to spec and their advice of how to try and deal with your problem in the way you have asked.


As has been said before. The guild has invited you and you are already raiding with them. So they MUST have at least some opinion of your skill at least, which merits that they listen to your suggestions. At the very least it merits that they come and have a look at the math and see which is better..


Overall, although some in this thread have bad-mouthed your guild and vet tank (it is a lil easy to do) the information within it and the attitude that YOU have shown is what really matters and which should be shown to your raid/guild leaders.
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:25 pm

Just to put this to bed:

The opportunity came up for me to make my point, it was made, issue is resolved. Diplomacy won the day.

I still won't point them here, because insults coming from a community I belong to are, by association, insults coming from me. And I just don't play that way. Teh interwebz are still about people, regardless of how much anonymity they get to hide behind.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Braundo » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:37 am

Glad to hear things worked out for you and your new guild.

Now go tank some bosses! :D
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Re: 2/2 SA build

Postby Dread » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:40 am

Now just drop a point from SA into Crusade , change either the HotR glyph or Judgement glyph (depending on your preference, I'd personally change both of them) to the SoV glyph, and use a different trinket than CoK (a level 70 trinket being used to tank level 80 content is QQ) and you'll be in good shape.
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