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[25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby amh » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:21 pm

cordelia wrote:Has anyone ever tried Army of the Dead for Steelbreaker?


Works like a charm. Nasty cooldown though.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Falibard » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:41 am

amh wrote:
cordelia wrote:Has anyone ever tried Army of the Dead for Steelbreaker?


Works like a charm. Nasty cooldown though.


For dps for as a tank? For dps I'm fairly certain they won't live long unless Unholy talents help AotD (which they may) but it is a very strong c/d for a tank. My guild downs this in three tank phases with me tanking last and AotD is always the last c/d I use.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby amh » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:06 am

cordelia wrote:Has anyone ever tried Army of the Dead for Steelbreaker? I assume pets dying don't cause him to gain an Electrical Charge.


To clarify, I meant it as a tank-cooldown to take less damage from a single Fusion Punch, not to have the small'uns tank for you. Didn't they specifically change Steelbreaker so that he still gains charges if he explodes a pet (voidy)? For that to happen you'd need that pet to tank him anyway, which isn't the case with AotD.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby itankforcash » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:21 am

I'm a total retard when it comes to DK's so...

What does Army of the Dead do for a DK tank?
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby amh » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:25 am

Summons an entire legion of Ghouls to fight for the Death Knight. The Ghouls will swarm the area, taunting and fighting anything they can. While channelling Army of the Dead, the Death Knight takes less damage equal to <his/her> Dodge plus Parry chance.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:40 am

You also can't dodge/parry, since you are channelling.

I think the idea was to make you not take extra damage while channelling it, but the way it is implemented means that its very powerful for avoiding being one-shot. Essentially you forgo all avoidance in favour of mitigation. Still same average damage taken, but obviously with no RNG and works vs magic attacks etc.

WTB for paladins :) (imagine if casting HolyLight did this for paladins tanks!)
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby amh » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:50 am

Candiru wrote:You also can't dodge/parry, since you are channelling.


Yeah, but you can cancel it at any point, and he doesn't melee when he's casting (or does he?).

(imagine if casting HolyLight did this for paladins tanks!)


A friend called me in to help heal on sapph + KT 10-man. The off-tank died in a void zone, and the paladin tanking KT didn't realize he had two taunts, so I "tanked" one add by healing myself while his taunt came off cooldown. Once we finally had KT + two adds on him, he naturally started taking a lot of damage. That was fine, really. Easily outhealable.. except he started spamming himself with holy light :|

Despite numerous /say, /yell and /w tank "STOP HEALING", the bastard spam-healed himself basically from the adds spawned till KT died.


Worst bloody kill ever.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:57 am

/facepalm.

Meleeing with SoL causes about the same self-healing as HolyLight spamming, and without the pesky lack of avoidance.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Treck » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:42 am

amh wrote:
Summons an entire legion of Ghouls to fight for the Death Knight. The Ghouls will swarm the area, taunting and fighting anything they can. While channelling Army of the Dead, the Death Knight takes less damage equal to <his/her> Dodge plus Parry chance.

Did not know..
Honestly thought it was a retarded suggestion to be casting when you really wanna avoid as much as possible.
Sorry for me beeing retarded.
And about the pets dying, as i remember it they changed it so that if a pet dies from meltdown, THEN he still gets a charge, not otherwise. And it prolly wont apply to army since they are so fragile.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby amh » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:49 pm

AotD is easily forgotten (even among DKs, as I understand it). It's a fairly potent cooldown when used properly.

- Malygos stops meleeing to cast his breath-thing
- Sartharion stops meleeing to cast Flame Breath
- Steelbreaker stops meleeing to cast Fusion Punch
- helping out on a tantrum, even providing some dps
- Does Mimiron melee whilst channeling Plasma? Either way, shaving 40%++ off a 20k tick > taking a few guaranteed melee hits.

I'm sure others can come up with more examples where the benefits from taking a static value less damage beats losing out on avoidance for a second or three.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Treck » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:43 am

amh wrote:- helping out on a tantrum, even providing some dps
- Does Mimiron melee whilst channeling Plasma? Either way, shaving 40%++ off a 20k tick > taking a few guaranteed melee hits.

If your doing XT hardmode, id recommend against AotD, they dont taunt the boss, but they do taunt the sparks and it stresses the healers a lot allrdy.
Mimiron does the Plasma independant of his meele attacks, its not even a cast iirc, theres an emote he does 3sec before its beeing casted (so Bossmods have a "casttime" for it) but hes meele attacks are weak enough to prolly consider it a CD.
But yeh, i never knew it was good cooldown even with a very long CD, and im unsure our DK tank knows about it, or considers it worth anything while tanking so cast it, but used properly it can reduce onehit abilities. Algalon big bang maybe?
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Dalithe » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:05 am

Life Sparks don't actually hurt anything around them (except melee attack). It's an area wide damage aura they do while alive. Probably something like 500yard range LoS although I didn't actually look it up.

I'm curious about the actual application of casting AotD though. On a standard T7.5 or T8.5 DK about how much damage reduction are you actually looking at? Thinking about that it would be around 45ish percent damage reduction while casting from a DK tank, wow.

*before finishing post and I looked it up, it is a 500yard range aura and 3 second pulse.
**finished reading it. The melee attack (shock) from sparks hit one target and up to 3 targets near him...Although my guild uses a 2nd tank to put them in the melee grinder area and watch the sparks dissolve.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Magnilda » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:41 am

The Spark no longer hits the additional 3 targets, was removed a while back now.
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby Sober » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:31 am

How are you guys dealing with Steelbreaker's Static Distruption? We have 4 people stand out of the raid to eat them (enough that he only targets them, but only one gets hit), then run in for heals but it gets tough to keep up with the increased nature damage (iirc, we had a totem for that) from Steelbreaker's aura. Does that aura also get increased damage as adds die?

We are doing Runemaster -> Stormcaller -> Steelbreaker. Runemaster is easy. Stormcaller is Strangulated and we stack the raid minus the 4 people on top of Steelbreaker and Stormcaller. Only problem is as Stormcaller dies and we move to Steelbreaker last, people getting hit by static distruptions and running back into the raid (to steelbreaker) are reporting like 7k steelbreaker aura ticks, is that intended?
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Re: [25] I Choose You, Steelbreaker

Postby fafhrd » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:06 am

Sober wrote:How are you guys dealing with Steelbreaker's Static Distruption? We have 4 people stand out of the raid to eat them (enough that he only targets them, but only one gets hit), then run in for heals but it gets tough to keep up with the increased nature damage (iirc, we had a totem for that) from Steelbreaker's aura. Does that aura also get increased damage as adds die?

We are doing Runemaster -> Stormcaller -> Steelbreaker. Runemaster is easy. Stormcaller is Strangulated and we stack the raid minus the 4 people on top of Steelbreaker and Stormcaller. Only problem is as Stormcaller dies and we move to Steelbreaker last, people getting hit by static distruptions and running back into the raid (to steelbreaker) are reporting like 7k steelbreaker aura ticks, is that intended?


Don't have them running in and out for heals, that's just wasting their time and increasing risks of positioning being screwed up or a disruption spreading. Pick 3 people (or 4 if you prefer) to stand outside the raid and DPS/heal from there - assign healers to heal them.

This doesn't need to change in the P2->P3 transitions - your raid can move into P3 position during P2 and everything other than tank/melee positions should be stable for most of p2+p3.

Things to check for though:
- make sure your soakers are all in range of NR aura. The range is shitty, and until I made a power aura to clearly show when I had it, I didn't realize that a lot of the positions I ended up at didn't actually get NR.
- make sure your soakers are far enough from steelbreak to actually get hit by disruption. If Steelbreaker is between the raid and stormcaller, it's tempting for a soaker to get into a position that's in range of DPSing stormcaller without realizing that he's never getting any disruptions cast on him - this results in the other soakers taking back to back disruptions and dying. If done properly on the other hand, no soaker is really in danger ever, because he'll be healed back to full before taking another discharge.

It's not a very good picture, but here's what our positions looked like this week:

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3 hunters standing behind the raid to soak - they're also off to the sides a bit, so they can be in range to DPS Stormcaller in P2 while still being far enough from steelbreaker to be hid by disruptions. Because of minimum range limits they may or may not want to back up a little bit to DPS steelbreaker in p3, but in this case that wasn't necessary.

In summary, make sure everyone involved has worked out any problems with their positions in p2, you don't have time or leeway in p3 to do so.
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