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[10] Firefighter

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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Dalithe » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:47 am

Looking to see if I missed it or not, but do the Extinguisher Bots stop spawning? Atm they are a real annoyance in P4.

Getting close though.

Also what are some other ideas for the bomb bots? Them exploding at the most Inconvenient time is a hindrance to say the least.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Threatco » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:39 am

So we had a full raid session on him last night, about 3 hours. Made progress but no banana yet.

Phase 3 is killing us. Havent gone to p4 yet.

What's killing people:

Phase 1:

Napalm chaining is bad. Had to set up positioning for ranged so people dont run over each other. Melee failed a couple times at running out. Ranged failed to be in range of heals when they get hit by napalm sometimes.

Phase 2:

Mim casts this big ball of water the blows up a HUGE area, he seems to like casting that on a small fire in the middle of the only safe area, effectivly giving us no where to go. His fires seem to cover 2/3 of the room at times which makes spreading a bit hairy but this phase is more consistant for us then p1 or p3 (odd considering comments). Only once did someone get gibbed by laser barrage.

Phase 3:

Fire goes nuts. No longer is it creeping over 1 big area, now these bots are putting out patches, and its growing it patches, we might have 3-4 big patches of fire all over the room. Keeping the raid position correctly is very hard. The head tank keeps getting sepperated form the melee by huge walls of fire. And of course there is the occasional (1/20) bomb bot that either drops on the raid or the head comes down as it does and melee dont see it (could happen in easy mode but happened to us twice here so i dont know) Really people just die form getting cornered with no go way to get around through fire to get back to their group. Phase 3 we usuly last quite a while, but keep losing people here and there near the end. At first its fine seems easy mode, kite, drop head dps it, kite head out of fire more ect. then bam fires all all messed up and everyone is seperated.

What i need to figure out is, do we need to kill emergency bots more? Or do we just need to stay grouped up better?
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Seloei » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:14 pm

If you have 2/3 of the area covered in p2 you are doing it wrong.
Get phase1 working a lot better then you will see phase2 becoming a lot easier also.

Have the ranged hunk up on one side, not too close to splash napalm shell and after the phase swap hide behind the fires so they spawn there. After the 2. set of fires spawn, go into your p2 positions.

This is still a control fight, if you can control where the fires are spawning / spawned you have a lot more room to play with. We had a bit of trouble in p3 until we managed to keep almost all the fires on one side of the room. Killed the emergency bots as soon as they spawned and ended up with 1/3 of the room without a fire when the 2. assault bot died. Rooted -> bloodlust nuked and he was in p4.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Threatco » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Sometimes we has almost no fire going into p2 and i don't really understand how. Seems like he just died really fast after he does the move that puts out all fire i think.

Phase 3 how many people do you assign to killing emergency bots? How often do they spawn, do you ignore them if they are far away?
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:19 pm

Threatco wrote:Sometimes we has almost no fire going into p2 and i don't really understand how. Seems like he just died really fast after he does the move that puts out all fire i think.

Phase 3 how many people do you assign to killing emergency bots? How often do they spawn, do you ignore them if they are far away?


Flame Suppressant gets triggered at the same time that Shock Blast comes off cooldown and another set of 3 fires going out. They are always paired. If he does the shock blast first, you will wipe out that set of fires with the flame suppressant which occurs right after. If he does Flame suppressant before Shock blast, the new set of fires will go out after the full clear goes off.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Threatco » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:32 pm

Threatco wrote:
Sometimes we has almost no fire going into p2 and i don't really understand how. Seems like he just died really fast after he does the move that puts out all fire i think.

Phase 3 how many people do you assign to killing emergency bots? How often do they spawn, do you ignore them if they are far away?


Flame Suppressant gets triggered at the same time that Shock Blast comes off cooldown and another set of 3 fires going out. They are always paired. If he does the shock blast first, you will wipe out that set of fires with the flame suppressant which occurs right after. If he does Flame suppressant before Shock blast, the new set of fires will go out after the full clear goes off.


Let me try to understand.

He can A) Cast fire. Cast shockblast. Cast flame surpress. = Win fires are out.
or B) Cast flame surpress. Cast shockblast. Cast fire. = Lose, lots of fire.

Is that it?

So it's totaly random if phase 1 ends with a huge amount of fire or almost none?
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:53 pm

Threatco wrote:
Threatco wrote:
Sometimes we has almost no fire going into p2 and i don't really understand how. Seems like he just died really fast after he does the move that puts out all fire i think.

Phase 3 how many people do you assign to killing emergency bots? How often do they spawn, do you ignore them if they are far away?


Flame Suppressant gets triggered at the same time that Shock Blast comes off cooldown and another set of 3 fires going out. They are always paired. If he does the shock blast first, you will wipe out that set of fires with the flame suppressant which occurs right after. If he does Flame suppressant before Shock blast, the new set of fires will go out after the full clear goes off.


Let me try to understand.

He can A) Cast fire. Cast shockblast. Cast flame surpress. = Win fires are out.
or B) Cast flame surpress. Cast shockblast. Cast fire. = Lose, lots of fire.

Is that it?

So it's totaly random if phase 1 ends with a huge amount of fire or almost none?


B is actually better. You want to be flame capped going into phase 3, because if means that the first 1-2 sets of fires to be cast at the raid wont actually work. All the fires will be massed on the opposite side of the room, resulting in the location of the first frost bomb being 100% predictable, and there being zero movement required by the raid until the first FB goes off and new fires spawn.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Threatco » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:01 pm

Ok that makes sense. But what about the emergency bots in phase 3?

Phase 3 starts, flame capped. Easy first part. But what what is the "FB" is it the big ball fo water I kept seeing in phase 2 that explodes people for alot of damage?

All I saw in phase 3 putting out fire were bots. If they stay dead then fire will only move after this "FB?"
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:08 pm

FB= Frost Bomb
And youre supposed to move away from it lol. In 25-man it one-shots you, while in 10-man it's survivable, but knocks back and does lots of damage. Getting hit by frost bomb is really bad, because you have a good 10 second time delay before it explodes, but the range is really big.
Frost bombs occur in phase 2 and phase 4. The DPS check of p2 is to transition to p3 before the third FB is cast, because that will result in you going into p3 not flame capped.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Belloc » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:18 pm

If you're at the point where you can control the flame cap, then kill all the fire bots immediately. If you're not at that point, don't kill any of them. They can end up putting out almost the entire room.

Our holy paladin made a video that, aside from having an annoying UI, displays our positioning and the effect it has. Phase 1, melee runs in the middle, ranged to... well, one area, but spread out. Tank pulls the boss towards a door as fire creeps up, gets the boss to the door before the phase 1 extinguish, ranged repositions behind the tank (in the boss kite path), still spread out. Blah blah, it's shown pretty well. You'll see a solid wave of fire against the back wall as a result of this.

In phase 2, the previous fire will be almost completely put out. Now you just have your ranged hang out together and make sure that your melee are not between the boss and the ranged (causing everyone to take the hand blast).

In our video, you'll see that, while we handled the magnetic cores sloppily (using them too close to a new fire spawn), there are never any real fire hazards that we face. And for 3/4ths of phase 4, there is literally no fire -- the bots put it out immediately. Of course, you have to run away from new fire spawns to not get blasted by water, but that's not hard at all. Our entire phase 4 would've been devoid of water, had we not killed the bots through incidental damage.

It's in two parts. Make sure to view them in HD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBmj8EUn ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0SqvYNu ... re=related


(This isn't necessarily the best way to kill the boss, but it works for us... in fact, it works pretty well. I hope it helps.)
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Sober » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:21 am

Can this fight be done with 2 tanks? The closest my group got last night was P4 as the self-destruct went off with 5%/13%/8% on the three parts. We are running Blood DK/Prot Pally, Holy priest/Resto Druid/Resto Shammy, Mage/Lock x2/Rogue/Blood DK.

From our attempts I saw something like:

P1 is fine, we spend about 2 minutes on it. DK tank starts on plasma blasts, I take it, he takes it back, done by 3rd one.
P2 took a couple of tries to get down. We spend about 2-3 mins on it - I pop Bubble+DivSac during this phase, we try to have melee and ranged sit at different spots so he only has a few possible ways to shock pulse people. We also have a 2-man group run out at a different angle (healer and raid leader) to ease healing.
P3 I feel we spend too long, it takes about 4 minutes for us to get through. One lock takes the head. DK tank take all the adds while I stand under the head and taunt the bombs on me. I can't exactly do much DPS inbetween that. We tried to chain Magnetic Cores on the head but for some reason it didn't work if they were all on one person (our rogue looted 2 and he said both dropped when he used 1). Would it be faster if I tank the adds and the DK tank soaks up bombs, then goes blood to dps the helm when it drops?
P4 I try to start the fight off by blowing Bubble+DivSac again since it's up by now. DK tank taunts the head, we apparently all masted the chaos of spin up w/ large arc and everyone running out of shock blast w/ simutaneous missile launches, etc. Only issue is we hit the enrage and we all die.
Transitions are fine, we usually have 2/3 of the room in P2 and P3, although P4 is a little crazy since we go out to kill the fire bots.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:30 pm

We tried to chain Magnetic Cores on the head but for some reason it didn't work if they were all on one person (our rogue looted 2 and he said both dropped when he used 1).


Your rogue is on crack. Even if that WERE the case, he could just wait to loot the second core until after dropping the first,
=(
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Belloc » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:38 pm

Joanadark wrote:
We tried to chain Magnetic Cores on the head but for some reason it didn't work if they were all on one person (our rogue looted 2 and he said both dropped when he used 1).


Your rogue is on crack. Even if that WERE the case, he could just wait to loot the second core until after dropping the first,
=(


What certainly happened was that the rogue looted the first core, dps dps dps, looted second core, everyone got into position, rogue used the second core, first core expired from having been in his inventory for a minute.



Sober, next time you try it, make sure he's using the first core, and make sure it doesn't take so long to get to that point. Also, be careful not to use the second core too early, or else it will go to waste.

Oh, and there is absolutely no room for two tanks on this fight.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Threatco » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:59 pm

On of my raiders in insistant that bomb bots should be soaked by a feral or plate wearer.

For normal mode we always had 1 head tank. 2 ranged bomb killers, and the resto druid helped by rooting.

Our attempts did have a couple of bomb bots accidents. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby fafhrd » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:20 pm

well their damage isn't mitigated by armor... so i assume he's just saying that because a big health pool is good for soaking explosions. not sure how good a feral would be for that (assuming you don't have a bear MT). but anything with a ranged taunt and the ability to survive a big blast of damage can do it - DKs are nice since their taunt also brings the mob immediately to them.

or you can just have a ranged DPS kill them.
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