VERY BASIC tanking know-how?

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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby bub64882 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:13 pm

In the display control panel (hit ESC key), there is a setting that controls how far out you can zoom the camera. Max this out for tanking. It's a life saver being able to see what's going on when you are fighting a huge boss, or huge adds (Emalon).
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby abinning » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:39 pm

bub64882 wrote:In the display control panel (hit ESC key), there is a setting that controls how far out you can zoom the camera. Max this out for tanking. It's a life saver being able to see what's going on when you are fighting a huge boss, or huge adds (Emalon).



try popping this every time you log in
Code: Select all
/console cameraDistanceMaxFactor 4

You will be able to zoom out farther. Great for sparks on maly or firewalls in OS.
Also good to see the whole picture on stuff like Freya.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Chronotriggerjm » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:57 pm

Don't forget you have non-rotation abilities! People often forget they have access to some awesome abilities when tanking, and they shouldn't be forgotten! If your a tank, take a look at all your abilities and see how they could be useful. Many of them are!

I've been in many parties where the pally tank isn't using Sacred Shield, Divine Protection, Hand of Protection, Hand of Salvation, Hand of freedom, etc etc etc. These moves can make a ton of difference throughout your tanking experience, and I see them get put to the wayside all the time! I've seen accidental pulls happen where say a group and a patrol is being fought, but the tank just drops like a rock when he could have used Divine Protection and taken roughly the same amount of damage he would have with just the one group! When I tank I try to use my trinkets and divine protection on alternating fights, just so that it always seems like I take less damage than most tanks. It's not magic, it's just using tools that were given to me.

Put trinkets on your hot keys! Believe it or not, trinkets go unused all the time. If you have them, use them!
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby abinning » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:16 pm

I heartily agree with Chronotriggerjm.
I use DProt nearly every cooldown, and i have my trinkets macro'd with sacred shield.
I know some tankadins don't waste gcds on SS, but you really should to keep it up 100%.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Kalakaua » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:54 pm

badgermonkey wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:Make sure you look confident in what you're doing, even if you don't have a fucking clue. If you don't perform well, odds on nobody else will either (in a pug, that is).


Yep. Assume you are the best. Don't be arrogant and call people noobs or anything, but just know for a fact what you are doing is perfect.

If you exhude confidence, people won't assume you are the problem , even if you are.


I disagree with this. If you are not good at tanking, the other people in your group will find out one way or another. I think it's better policy to be upfront about your weaknesses and ask for help. Most of the problems with noob tanks are easily fixed if people understand the solution and are willing to help.

Problem #1: Poor threat.
Solution: Ask dps to wait a bit before dpsing. Tank threat in general is so good now that people will often start dpsing as soon as you touch the mob. This is fine if the tank is good and knows what they're doing, but if you pretend like you're the best tank in the world and someone pulls aggro and dies, it leads to accusations, frustration, anger, etc. If you admit that your threat generation is poor and ask dps to give you more time than they ordinarily do, then I find that they're much more accommodating. After all, it's hard enough to find a group for ordinary 5-man heroics these days and everyone wants to get their daily quest done. Furthermore, rogues and hunters both have the ability to boost your threat through tricks of the trade and misdirection respectively.

Problem #2: Tank dies too fast.
Solution: Use CC. If you're poorly geared, 4 heroic mobs will beat you down quickly if your healer is not top notch. Don't be afraid to use CC. Mage sheep and rogue sap are the most common ones I've seen used (when CC is actually used), but don't forget that shaman can hex and ret pallies can use repentance. Also, anyone remember the last time they saw a warlock use seduce or a hunter trap something? They can still do it.

Another solution is to have that ret pally, enhancement/elemental shaman, or boomkin back up heal. Their healing is not great and they may be reluctant, but if it means the difference between a successful run or failure and an hour sitting around in LFG for another group, they can usually be convinced. With dual specs, you might even be able to have one switch to being a full secondary healer.

Problem #3: Tank makes poor tactical decisions. Includes standing in void zones and generally being clueless about what to do on a particular fight.

Solution: Ask the group for advice. If you don't know what you're doing, there's a high probability that someone in your group knows the best way to handle a particular boss or pull. For some reason, there is a culture in this game where people get extremely hostile when someone criticizes or offeres alternative ways to do things. People tend to get really mad when someone tells them how to "do their job". As a result, people usually keep their ideas to themselves and just whisper to each other about how much you suck before mysteriously leaving the group and hearthing in the middle of the instance. If you ask for help, they will likely give it to you.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Arcand » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:59 pm

Kalakaua wrote:Problem #2: Tank dies too fast.
Solution: Use CC. If you're poorly geared, 4 heroic mobs will beat you down quickly if your healer is not top notch. Don't be afraid to use CC.


Get a BC tankadin to tell you some war stories about those heroics. When we first started running them, you'd see groups that were tank, mage, mage, hunter, healer because your life was in serious danger tanking two heroic mobs...and if that ice block broke early, it was panic time. :)

Also don't forget, all those ret paladins have Repentance. It doesn't suck anymore. At all. It has good range, excellent duration and works on all kinds of creature types.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby quixoticprime » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:24 am

Speaking as a fairly green tankadin, this site in general and this thread in particular have been extraordinarily helpful to me. Many thanks to Knaughty and the rest of the community here for providing this resource for beginners and experts alike.

As a brief bit of background, I have an 80 tankadin as my main with whom I did not run instances very much until BC, and not even a whole lot then. I am in a small, social-oriented guild comprised of real-life friends and family that I enjoy very much. It does not provide an overwhelming opportunity for "guild only" runs of instances, though, as it is rare for more than two or three of us to be on at any given time. We have been able to coordinate some normal runs in Northrend, and I found that I really enjoy the role and challenge of tanking a great deal.

I recently started running with PuGs as a way to experience more content, sharpen my skills, and improve my gear. I was initially worried about jumping into PuGs, as I had read my share of horror stories about them. However, I'm pleased to report that my experiences have been almost universally positive. As the PuGs have mostly been for heroic instances, I have usually kept my eye open in trade/general to see a group that has advertised for a tank at least twice before offering my services. (I also PuG normals for practice when I can, but there seem to be fewer groups for those.)

I always state up front that I do not know the fights well / have only run the instance in normal (whatever the case may be), but that I would be willing to tank for the group if they were okay with that. No one has had a problem, and I have found that there is usually at least one graybeard in the group willing to share tips / show me the ropes. I also avoid any group doing an instance that I haven't done at least a few times on normal. I generally log on with a list of two or three instances I'd like to try and read up on the boss strats / instance guides in advance so that I have some idea of what to expect.

Running with the PuGs has really helped me get better, especially a few times that a veteran tank was on with his or her alt and willing to share some tips. If I notice in a group that someone has offered several good tips, I usually send them a tell to see if they had any advice. I also typically engage my healer in a dialogue to see if I am making their lives hard or easy, and how best to fix it if the former is true.

At any rate, I just wanted to share my story for any other tankadins taking their first steps into new content with unfamiliar comrades. I have found that clear communication of my experience level right at the beginning to be the key. I'll usually also ask for a consensus strategy for bosses or any tricky pulls, and that seems to help make sure everyone is on the same page. People are usually willing to work with me if they see that I am genuinely just trying to ensure a smooth, wipe-free run.

The things I struggle with the most right now are fast reactions to unusual situations or unexpected mob behavior. If I have time to plan a pull and set up, I'm usually okay. When things go awry, though, and you have to really get creative to salvage the situation, I am not nearly as fast as I would like to be. But, even the wipes have been instructive, as I always learn something new or reinforce something I didn't know as well as I thought. And, usually if I make a good-natured, self-deprecating comment about something I did wrong on a wipe or almost-wipe, I find that the DPS and healer will usually chime in with their own list of what they could have done differently. (Even if it was squarely, 100% my fault beyond any doubt. Curse you and your repeated fears, Commander Kolurg!) It definitely seems like PuGs will often take direction from the tank in many ways, and if I keep my comments positive in a "we'll get 'em this time" way, it seems to help keep the mood lighter. Complimenting the healer and party after a good boss fight always raises the mood, too.

Okay, sorry about writing a novel. I just wanted to say thanks for all of the very helpful information, and share my story for any other rookies out there. Cheers!
"Stop pummeling me, it's really painful!" -- Homer J. Simpson
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby jere » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:20 pm

Arcand wrote:
Kalakaua wrote:Problem #2: Tank dies too fast.
Solution: Use CC. If you're poorly geared, 4 heroic mobs will beat you down quickly if your healer is not top notch. Don't be afraid to use CC.


Get a BC tankadin to tell you some war stories about those heroics. When we first started running them, you'd see groups that were tank, mage, mage, hunter, healer because your life was in serious danger tanking two heroic mobs...and if that ice block broke early, it was panic time. :)

Also don't forget, all those ret paladins have Repentance. It doesn't suck anymore. At all. It has good range, excellent duration and works on all kinds of creature types.


Do you remember the good old pre-nerf Lieutenant Drake of Heroic Old Hillsbrad? 4k Hamstrings, 7-8k mortal strikes, 4-5k whirlwinds, 4k melee. A lot of groups wouldn't go without two healers for that instance. Ahh the glory days.

Anyways, not trash, but the old school talk got me reminiscing.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Discus » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:32 am

Make sure you look confident in what you're doing, even if you don't have a fucking clue.

This will be written on the West's Gravestone, which will be made in China.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Xish » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:02 am

<-- Brand new tankadin (switched from heavy healadin).

Thanks to all who contributed; I'm going to be using everything mentioned here. This community is a font of useful knowledge!
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Arcand » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:19 am

Discus wrote:Make sure you look confident in what you're doing, even if you don't have a fucking clue.

This will be written on the West's Gravestone, which will be made in China.


Crappily, with unsafe amounts of lead. :)
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Re: VERY BASIC tanking know-how?

Postby Chronotriggerjm » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:40 am

Another frustration encountered over the weekend!!!

We wiped in VIOLET HOLD because our tank couldn't "kite" the boss with the pink orbs :/

I explained to him, "It's super easy, one of the easiest ways to kite a monster, is to basically hold the "s" key and use your mouse to click abilities, don't get too far from the boss, but try to stay moving." And I guess that was a major shock to his system, and he wiped, again. Is there some other universal fact that I'm not remembering? Kiting is pretty easy as far as I recall :/ I NEVER use the mouse to click anything in my normal rotation (I play using the two mouse buttons to move, and my fingers rest on 1-4) so maybe because I'm used to mouse work, panning my character around halls and stuff is easy. Is there a better way to do so for wasd users?
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Re: VERY BASIC tanking know-how?

Postby Braundo » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:34 am

I hold the "s" key to back up, and hold down the right mouse button (+ mouse left/right) to turn myself as I'm backing up if need be. I use my free fingers on my left hand to hit my ability keys on 1-5 and etc.
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Re: VERY basic tanking know-how?

Postby Eminna » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:05 am

Kalakaua wrote:I disagree with this. If you are not good at tanking, the other people in your group will find out one way or another. I think it's better policy to be upfront about your weaknesses and ask for help. Most of the problems with noob tanks are easily fixed if people understand the solution and are willing to help.


Hmm...I understand what your saying but I think that a prot pally does need to be "perfect". Today being my first day tanking I realized that if i didn't take hold of the group and lead it, there were problems. You don't have to pretend like you know everything but say you wipe because you were standing in AoE you say:

Man that AoE does massive damage, I gotta watch for that. (or something like that)

Instead of:

Omg lol im sucha noob this is my first time tanking this place :p can any1 tell me what i should do for that aoe?

Hopefully that saves a couple of you new prot pallies from some DPS hearthing.

And as for the beginning macro make sure to say please, and put smiley faces in it. Or else it will very easily be taken as an insult. Something you also might want to consider in your opening paragraph is a line telling the healer to show her readiness by putting a heal or hot on you. This is a great way to prevent wipes and cut down on the hastle of ready checks. Here is my opening paragraph for an example.

/p Mobs will be killed {skull} -> {cross} -> {square} CC'd mobs will have a {moon} -- Please turn pet taunts off lol [: Before every pull, to make sure the healer is ready, a quick healing spell or HoT would be awesome!
/smile smile
/readycheck
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Re: VERY BASIC tanking know-how?

Postby Zeianna » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:37 pm

Woooo! Hey Eminna!

Personally, I think Chronotriggerjim's contribution is one of the best pieces of advice new tankadins can be given.

Chronotriggerjm wrote:Don't forget you have non-rotation abilities! People often forget they have access to some awesome abilities when tanking, and they shouldn't be forgotten! If you're a tank, take a look at all your abilities and see how they could be useful. Many of them are!
...


Since my guild rarely (read: never, but i'm not ruling it out) has any holy paladins at all, I make sure before every pull that I have 1. Holy Shield, 2. Divine Plea, and 3. Sacred Shield up on myself. It helps your mitigation, and it makes use of all the tools you have available. I also use the mod Clique to enable my middle button clicks (middle, ctrl+middle, shift+middle etc) for all of my Hand spells, and make use of them as necessary.

I encourage everyone to not forget how much utility you can bring to even a heroic!
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