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Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

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Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby Tcud » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:27 am

Heya guys, there is 3 talent vs talent that I want to clear out before going crazy.

1. Divine Guardian 2/2 or Improved Hammer of Justice 2/2?

2. 1/2 improved judgements or 2/2 improved judgements? the 1 filler point in retibution are useless anyway and sometime we cant do our 9696 rotation so 2/2 imj is good?

3. 5/5 conviction or 3/5 conviction+2/2 PoJ? actually I already decided on this one but want to check other opinions.

So come on ppl, let discuss.
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby ulushnar » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:33 am

Is this really so pressing that you can't append it to your old thread? Ya know, the one right below this?

It seems to be a continuation of that discussion...
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby Tcud » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:38 am

Ulushnar wrote:Is this really so pressing that you can't append it to your old thread? Ya know, the one right below this?

It seems to be a continuation of that discussion...


Yes it is, Im sick and desperate.
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby kanst » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:31 am

Tcud wrote:Heya guys, there is 3 talent vs talent that I want to clear out before going crazy.

1. Divine Guardian 2/2 or Improved Hammer of Justice 2/2?
Are you always MT? Lots of people can interrupt only pallies can DG, so I pick it up for the situations when its helpful

Tcud wrote:2. 1/2 improved judgements or 2/2 improved judgements? the 1 filler point in retibution are useless anyway and sometime we cant do our 9696 rotation so 2/2 imj is good?
Doesn't matter, 2/2 works for fights with lots of movement, I throw it in benediction cuz at times I do have mana issues

Tcud wrote:3. 5/5 conviction or 3/5 conviction+2/2 PoJ? actually I already decided on this one but want to check other opinions.

So come on ppl, let discuss.
Id always go PoJ what it really comes down to is 2% crit vs 7 stam, since if you go 5/5 conviction you should get runspeed on your boots. In ulduar im more concerned with living then threat so I will always go PoJ and put fort on my boots
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby Dread » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:22 am

Tcud wrote:Heya guys, there is 3 talent vs talent that I want to clear out before going crazy.

1. Divine Guardian 2/2 or Improved Hammer of Justice 2/2?

2. 1/2 improved judgements or 2/2 improved judgements? the 1 filler point in retibution are useless anyway and sometime we cant do our 9696 rotation so 2/2 imj is good?

3. 5/5 conviction or 3/5 conviction+2/2 PoJ? actually I already decided on this one but want to check other opinions.

So come on ppl, let discuss.


1. 2/2 Divine Guardian. More damage absorption from Sacred Shield is win. This will also make your DS an even stronger cooldown to use on the party/raid (particularly if you're OTing or something).

2. 1/2 Imp Judgements. If you have a dependable ret pally in your raid, use the extra point in Benediction. If you don't, put it in Imp BoM. 2/2 is really just a wasted point if you're doing your rotation correctly. Even if you're in a situation where you're kiting or whatever and can't do 969, you won't need an extra second off of your Judgement.

3. I personally prefer 2/2 PoJ for the run speed utility. I find I do enough threat without 5/5 Conviction to allow me more flexibility in utility choices. In 3.2, I'll be lowering to 1/5 Conviction to pick up both PoJ and Vindication.
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby Dread » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:26 am

kanst wrote:Id always go PoJ what it really comes down to is 2% crit vs 7 stam, since if you go 5/5 conviction you should get runspeed on your boots. In ulduar im more concerned with living then threat so I will always go PoJ and put fort on my boots


This has been discussed a bit more in other threads, but the run speed on the Tuskarr's enchant is only 8% improved speed. 2/2 PoJ is 15%. So it's a little more than just the +7 Stam, it's a little additional utility which can be nice.
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Re: Talent vs Talent, 3 round.

Postby Corpsicle » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:55 am

I run with a ret pally that is 100% attendance in my ten man - since he provides the crit debuff on the mob and imp. BoM, I take 3/5 benediction and 2/2 Imp Judgements to go down the tree. With 2/2 Imp Judgements it is easy enough to stay on roation using a standard 969, and if you have any lag issues you will likely not even notice the difference between 1/2 and 2/2 Judgements for single target tanking. 2/2 Imp Judgments is most useful when you are doing multiple add pick ups and aoe tanking. Pick what is most useful to you and your raid from the following: 2/2 Imp Judgements, Benediction, Heart of the Crusader, and Imp Might. Figure out who's buffing and debuffing what and figure out when or if you have mana problems regularly, then base your choice around that.

Your other two talent questions are equally situational. While Hammer of Justice is on the gcd, I have found myself wishing I had a 20 second cooldown on it at times. I also really like having a buffed up and longer Sacred Shield. Each choice is good, but dependant on what you need more in your group. Do you have good interrupters consistently or are you the one getting the needed interrupts off? Check recount after an interrupt intensive fight and see where you stand - if you are only taking care of 1 or 2 interrupts over the course of the fight, likely your other interrupters are good enough you could stand to drop Imp. HoJ and pick up DG.

5/5 Conviction vs 3/5 Conviction + PoJ is probably personal preference based around movement speed. I've tanked Ulduar 10 including Vezax with 5/5 conviction and no run speed enchant on my boots. You can always keep a pair of boots in your bags with a run speed enchant if you choose 5/5 conviction and the higher 22 stam to boots enchant for general purposes. I find I personally prefer to have PoJ in my spec - it just feels better in terms of response time for tanking and I also love it in battlegrounds and a non raid environment. The fun aspect makes it worth it to take for me - the benefits to taking or not are minor at best. Based on other threads put up in the past, you will find folks either swear by 5/5 conviction or swear by 3/5 +PoJ. Good tanks are on both sides of the debate and have had success with both choices.
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