[10] Firefighter

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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Belloc » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:37 am

I'll agree with people saying it's a healing problem. This is the most healer intensive fight in Ulduar (personal opinion), especially when players aren't used to the mechanics (fires, napalm, mines). Pre-nerf, if two people got hit by a napalm blast, one would almost always die.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Serelynn » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:24 am

Still difficult, we haven't gotten it yet - healing is the major issue.

We're hoping our two holy priests can glyph Holy Nova and spam that for P2 healing where we failed hard.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Falibard » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:52 pm

Serelynn wrote:Still difficult, we haven't gotten it yet - healing is the major issue.

We're hoping our two holy priests can glyph Holy Nova and spam that for P2 healing where we failed hard.


From what I understand the HPS from Holy Nova is great from 25 man but probably not efficient enough to use in 10 man.

To follow up with what some said about 4 plasma blasts... if you're having to spend that much time in phase 1 you're going to find yourself flirting with the enrage timer. Once your dps get used to positioning you're see phase 1 go down faster and faster. My group downed this fight this weekend and once we were at seriously kill attempts we were getting out of phase 1 before or during the third blast.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Anorian » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:13 am

First evening of real try's last night, really notice the lack of a 2nd cooldown now. I'm solo tanking but we needed a dps war to go sword/board and shieldwall the 3rd plasma. Although i did manage to survive one plasma with just a well timed lay on hands on 5% hp. need to be lucky then i gues.

P2 was easier then i thought but i gues the fact we had a disc priest, holy priest and a resto druid healing makes it alot easier. We didn't manage to reach p4 though. Had 1 5% in p3 but that wasn't gonna happen anyway with deaths a little earlier in. The main problem seemed lacking dps on the adds, the bots weren't going down fast enough to keep up with the spawning.

Our setup was:

Me (prot pala)
Holy priest
Disc priest
Resto druid
Feral druid
Arms/fury warrior (he was not in guild so dont know tbh)
2 hunters (some dmg spec xD)
Frostfire mage
unholy DK

We had the mage + DK on bomb bots, DK for slowing mage for killing. 1 of the hunters tanking the head and kiting it around a corner when we almost had an assault bot going down, or atleast that was the plan. The rest nuking down adds. We would start of pretty well in p3 but generally it fell apart after 2/3 assault bots spawned. And i got overrun by massive amounts of dmg. The amount of things you have to watch at that time is just insane.

But love the fight and really wanna try it again soon.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:18 am

We had the mage + DK on bomb bots, DK for slowing mage for killing.


This is your DPS problem, right here. You lost a full third of your DPS to something that should require almost none of it.

Your DK should simply have the head focus'd and death grip the bomb bots a little ways away from everyone and letting them explode on him, and then going back to DPSing. He can shell the explosion if he's ever not topped off. Just have healers aware hes going to take a spike on a regular frequency.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Anorian » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:19 am

Joanadark wrote:
This is your DPS problem, right here. You lost a full third of your DPS to something that should require almost none of it.

Your DK should simply have the head focus'd and death grip the bomb bots a little ways away from everyone and letting them explode on him, and then going back to DPSing. He can shell the explosion if he's ever not topped off. Just have healers aware hes going to take a spike on a regular frequency.


Hmm thats a pretty good idea, was still in the mindset of killing the adds. Will try it as soon as we get there again.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:24 am

Anorian wrote:
Joanadark wrote:
This is your DPS problem, right here. You lost a full third of your DPS to something that should require almost none of it.

Your DK should simply have the head focus'd and death grip the bomb bots a little ways away from everyone and letting them explode on him, and then going back to DPSing. He can shell the explosion if he's ever not topped off. Just have healers aware hes going to take a spike on a regular frequency.


Hmm thats a pretty good idea, was still in the mindset of killing the adds. Will try it as soon as we get there again.


You killed them normally? I guess that just seems weird to me, since I never was with a group that did that, even for normal mode progression. We always simply had someone with a taunt and high hp pull them out and eat the explosion. Often me. ><
Its a pretty easy job.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Avengeance » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:55 am

Agree, I never killed the bomb bots since my first normal kill, we always used a plate to soak (ret pala, dps war or DPS DK). Its far more controllable instead of worrying that the bot might not die on time to a dps.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Jasari » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:57 am

We just have our boomkin root the bomb bots a couple times until they blow up. No one takes any damage.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby fafhrd » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:40 am

We had a hunter just kill the bots as they spawn. On 10 at least they have very little health, and if you stick a /target bombwhatever macrod to one of your attacks, you'll start shooting at them while they're still falling through the air, so they die pretty quick.

it's a good way to get mana actually if you're MM :) (although i guess MM is pretty shittastic otherwise if you're assigned to adds)
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:59 am

If you are able to tank the adds under the head, the bomb bots should be dying almost immediately (they only have 20k health).
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby solidice » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:02 am

Anorian wrote:P2 was easier then i thought but i gues the fact we had a disc priest, holy priest and a resto druid healing makes it alot easier.


Any additional details on this :)

We have the same healer comp, but are just getting worked by P2. Everything is going fine, going fine, going fine. Then people move mb a bit too much, and bamn massive death.

We basically use a moving triangle of sorts, where the healers are the 3 points, and the DPS is all spread out in the inside (like peperoni on a pizza slice). I'm not sure if a different formation is the answer, or if healers just need more time to adapt to the damage..

Anorian wrote:We had the mage + DK on bomb bots, DK for slowing mage for killing. 1 of the hunters tanking the head and kiting it around a corner when we almost had an assault bot going down, or atleast that was the plan. The rest nuking down adds. We would start of pretty well in p3 but generally it fell apart after 2/3 assault bots spawned. And i got overrun by massive amounts of dmg. The amount of things you have to watch at that time is just insane.


I think some people mentioned this, but having druids root the bombs is really helpfull.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby melisandyr » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:59 am

We had 2x resto druids and a holy priest.

In P2 we found the best way to deal with massive damage bursts was never to have the melee with their backs to the healers/ranged dps - that way, the damage was spread over the group, even when we got a giant burst, it would never hit ten people, only four/five at the most.

Clever use of divine guardina & judgement of light up, along with fire res aura too add a bit of an extra support function.
If you're struggling with p2, you might want to use bloodlust/heroism and your pots at this point, rather than wait for p3 and the head landing, at least in the early stages of training until you have this phase under control.

In phase 3 one of the resto druids popped bear form and went to blow up the bombs manually.

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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby Joanadark » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:17 pm

In P2 we found the best way to deal with massive damage bursts was never to have the melee with their backs to the healers/ranged dps - that way, the damage was spread over the group, even when we got a giant burst, it would never hit ten people, only four/five at the most.


This is a good point, for more reasons than what you stated.
When spinning up is used, it will begin targeted at a random person in the raid. By keeping your melee always with their backs away from the ranged group (instead of constantly moving behind the boss. i.e. if he rapid bursts the melee they should just eat it), you dramatically raise the likelyhood that the Spinning Up is a harmless one, during which your ranged and healers do not have to move or stop DPSing at all.
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Re: [10] Firefighter

Postby amh » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:50 pm

Hopefully getting enough people out of vacation-mode so we can do Firefighter tomorrow, so I've made something of a plan. It's not devious, but it should get us a kill. Ninjad your benchmark, Joanadark, hope you don't mind all too much.

We've only tried this a couple of times, one night a few weeks ago, so we're more or less on ground zero. Have I made any glaring blunders for the different phases?

Right, shame to waste another week without seeing Algalon. No-nonsense run, we're going in and killing the following:

FL + 0
XT (hard-mode if anyone needs a particular hard-mode drop)
Kologarn
Aurayayaiaia

This part should take about 30-45 minutes. Then the rest of the evening is spent on Mimiron hard-mode until he's dead. Once that hopefully happens (and I fail to see why it shouldn't), we'll say hello to Algalon. If there's any spare time, we'll kill whatever people want. Not going to waste a second until Mimiron is dead, though.

I hope we get a few interested, so we can optimize the group somewhat. If you are interested, please do the following:

Watch this: http://forlornlegacy.net/media/mimiron.php
Their movement-strat looks good, so I want to try it out.

Get this:
- This is where I would say fire protection potion, but honestly, the fire-damage has been nerfed to hell. It ticks for about 5k, and avoiding it isn't very hard. There's also between 0 and 1 available on the AH.

- Nuke-potion of your choice. Could I nick a few Potion of Wild Magic from the guild bank? Only one on the AH, and it's 15 gold :(


Benchmark:
Phase 1: 1 min, 30 secs
20 second transition
Phase 2: 3 mins, 30 secs
20 second transition
Phase 3: 45 seconds
20 second transition, AOE adds
Phase 4: 3 min, 15 secs
HARD ENRAGE


Phase 1:
Once we work out how this is supposed to happen, we'll have ranged dps kiting fires. You kite them by being the closest person. We'll try to keep all fires localized in a single quadrant.

Phase 2:
This is where I hope we get a retribution-paladin with Divine Sac. Depending on how our healers experience it, we'll either:

- Ranged stacked in place, melee running through boss to avoid getting hit
or
- Ranged stacked in place, melee stacked directly opposite of the ranged. This means higher damage-intake overall, but much less burst potential (max 5 players hit, as opposed to 10 players)

Phase 3:
We will either:

- Do as normally, kill him when and where there's room. Fires clustering on the boss might be a problem.
or
- Once we got fires under control, line of sight-pull the boss to an entrance (most likely the left entrance). This should allow us to nuke him without fires eating our arses. If we have a warrior tank, spell-reflect tank the head.

Phase 4:
We will run around like headless chickens.
We will kill off emergency bots when they're coming painfully close. They don't silence anymore, but their aoe to douse the flames still hurts.
Mimiron dies.
I used to play a paladin.
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