[DK] The DK Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Gracerath » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:42 am

Can't say I'm too thrilled with the current notes so I hope there are some tweaks to that down the line. Maybe I gear incorrectly or spec incorrectly but my HP's are already in line with other tanks at my gear level, I don't feel another nerf was needed.

I am mostly DPS frost and the change to frost strike kind of annoys me. I geared around not needing a whole lot of expertise since Frost Strike doesn't need it. Now I'll have to rethink my gearing choices. Also the new dual wielding talent seems interesting. I'm glad I picked up some 1hers that no one else wanted from Ulduar. I'm getting tired of looking at BoH, I wouldn't mind trying something new.

Currently it feels like they tipped the scales too far to the other side.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:37 am

First the nerf to Frost Presence armor and now the nerf to toughness ...
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:55 am

I'm curious to see what they will offer DKs in compensation for all the damage reduction they're doing away with in the last patch and possibly in this next one. Maybe some kind of absorb bubble like bears get?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby FeralMoons » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:27 am

Its unfortunate that we keep having to almost relearn this class as they continue to make sweeping changes each patch. Its getting to the point I just want to reroll again...nm I did! :P
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby mavfin » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:09 pm

Not going to say anything about the toughness or the Frost Presence changes, as we'll have to see how the numbers work out. If they're too low, then they'll have to pull some of that back. They're well known for overnerfing pre-PTR, anyway. However, the IBF change is long overdue. Hell, to *get* a 2 minute defensive cooldown AT ALL on my warrior takes a glyph and 2 talent points, so I don't see how not having a 1 minute cooldown will 'ruin' a Death Knight. (And yes, I have one, and I've tanked with it.)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Viycktor » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:35 pm

FeralMoons wrote:Its unfortunate that we keep having to almost relearn this class as they continue to make sweeping changes each patch. Its getting to the point I just want to reroll again...nm I did! :P

Yeah, but DKs are a new class, that's the deal, take it or leave it. Blizzard is STILL changing playstyle of Paladins (in all three trees), and they've been there from the beginning.

My DK (unholy dps/frost tank) is still lvl 78 (been leveling quickly thanks to the fire festival!) and just recently got his tanking gear squared away to be in line for 80 (it helps when tanking mobs 4 levels higher than you). And I'm not sure how some of these changes will affect leveling DKs... But I'm defeinitely trying to get to 80 before the patch hits (and I won't even have to spend gold to respec my tanking and dps specs now :)).

I understand the armor changes I think. They don't want high avoidance tanks with too much passive damage reduction. That makes sense. But these may be too much on top of the IBF change. I say this as someone who mainly plays a prot Paladin: YES 1min CDs feel OPed, but if they lower the EH of DKs enough, then it's important to always have a preemtive, on-demand damage reduction CD available. I think that was the original mindset that palced it at 1 min. This is mitigated by the fact that many spike damage attacks are magic-base, so AMS is available as well. Unholy still has bone shield and frost unbreakable armor for physical (I think that's waht it's called) and blood has WotN so it may be a wash in the end.

And I'm guessing the frost strike nerf was solely for PvP? I mean, great, ok, now expertise is even better for Frost tanks... but dangit you don't start getting gobs of the stuff until you're into epic gear, and high-end players will be focusing on hit and expertise for reasons of their other strikes (oblit), so it's realistically only another example of PvE leveling being a casualty of PvP... again.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:55 pm

Viycktor wrote: They don't want high avoidance tanks with too much passive damage reduction.



we used to have another 10% parry but that was changed to 5% reduction. The change from 10% hp to 6% stam is so-so i think 8% stam would be a little better. Yes my avoid is higher but my Hp is usually equal or lower then other classes, but with a few bad luck hits 1-2k can save your ass. only time will tell i just hope this PTR will get some things ironed out.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:45 am

Discerpo wrote: Yes my avoid is higher but my Hp is usually equal or lower then other classes, but with a few bad luck hits 1-2k can save your ass. only time will tell i just hope this PTR will get some things ironed out.


This is kind of the difficult scenario. It's hard to say without an armory what level your gear is but when you start to hit the end of Ulduar gear, I'm a good 5-6k hp ahead of the other tanks. Scaling back the stam buffs is reasonable as I'll probably be around the same HP again once I have 3.2 gear. This will make entry level DK tanks a bit squishier but it's kind of a necessary adjustment for the pve world.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby amh » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:09 pm

I'm curious about a few talents set up against each other for threat.

Sudden Doom 3/3 vs Blood Gorged 5/5 vs Morbidity 1,2,3/3 vs Ravenous Dead 3/3

Sudden Doom and Morbidity obviously becomes better when coupled to each other, but how about the rest? Would Blood Gorged be more threat per point than Morbidity?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:49 am

amh wrote:I'm curious about a few talents set up against each other for threat.

Sudden Doom 3/3 vs Blood Gorged 5/5 vs Morbidity 1,2,3/3 vs Ravenous Dead 3/3

Sudden Doom and Morbidity obviously becomes better when coupled to each other, but how about the rest? Would Blood Gorged be more threat per point than Morbidity?


Sudden Doom is near worthless as a tank talent. Blood Gorged is a great threat threat talent (some would say a must have for deep Blood). My personal view of the value of Morbidity in a Blood tank spec would be for its reduced DnD cooldown as I don't throw tons of Death Coils while I'm tanking.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby amh » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:15 am

/runs off to respec

:(

However, you're missing out on Ravenous Dead. Point for point, which one would be better? (Blood Gorged vs Ravenous Dead).

Napkin-calculating how much parry-rating I would miss out on.. Yeah, not even going to mention the avoidance-loss, because it's near non-existant.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:34 am

Anyone check ou the new unholy blight yet? seems kinda lame at first, but the more i look at it it may not be that bad...

was just reduced to 20% from 30% but with UHB being added to deathcoil it makes DC my only dump(other then rune strike) meaning more single target threat. On top of that its a ranged effect and another placed dot.

I really liked UHB when runnung lowbie instances just run around using BB and keeoing UHB up o well.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:59 am

amh wrote:/runs off to respec

:(

However, you're missing out on Ravenous Dead. Point for point, which one would be better? (Blood Gorged vs Ravenous Dead).

Napkin-calculating how much parry-rating I would miss out on.. Yeah, not even going to mention the avoidance-loss, because it's near non-existant.


My spec is not cookie cutter, but it's pretty close. Blood Gorged is still the better than Ravenous Dead. I'm not BiS but I have higher end gear and I have 1116 unbuffed str. RD would give me 33.5 str unbuffed... 1% str per point vs. 2% total dmg and 2% ArP per point (when above 75% health).

The link in your sig doesn't work so I don't know what kind of gear you're in but Blood is the most demanding gear spec. If you're a fresh 80 you may want to tank in another spec until your gear allows you to be at(near) hit/expertise cap.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby amh » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:16 am

Fixed. And yeah, I realize that blood is more gear-demanding, but I personally love it. I'm not having threat-issues, and it's just my baby alt that I can play around with. My aoe-threat is absolutely dire, but it works :)


Picking up Blood Gorged, so thanks.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:05 am

Falibard, I notice you take Death Rune Mastery in your builds, does this mean you're running a HS-heavy rotation rather than the DS-heavy alternative? Last I had heard the DS rotation without DRM was superior, so I'm curious.
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