Which one first? Badge Chest or Legs?

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Which one first? Badge Chest or Legs?

Postby Erd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:16 pm

I have [Jade-Skull Breastplate] and [Timewarden's Leggings]

Chest - My guild does not do Magtheridon anymore. We are not doing Kael until SSC is clear. Nightbane in Kara is hardly ever done.

Legs - Legs off Curator never drop, but they might someday. We are just starting on Fathomlord so there is a chance of getting those legs.

It's looking like I should get the chest piece first. What do you guys think?
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Postby kalbear » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:40 pm

Get the wrists first. They're cheap and awesome. Then the chest. Then the legs.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:44 pm

kalbear wrote:Get the wrists first. They're cheap and awesome. Then the chest. Then the legs.


How do you figure? I'm rather unimpressed by them myself.
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Postby Erd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:16 pm

already have the wrists from kara
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Postby Invisusira » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:41 pm

I'd honestly go with the legs first just because they're sooo gooooood!
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Postby Erd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:16 pm

Invisusira wrote:I'd honestly go with the legs first just because they're sooo gooooood!


even if I get the tier 5 leggings? cuz if so, I'd rather pass the tier 5 to someone who needs them more
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Postby kalbear » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:10 pm

How do you figure? I'm rather unimpressed by them myself.
+20 expertise is going to figure to be something on the neighborhood of a 5% threat boost against bosses.

Vambraces of Courage
634 Armor
+33 Stamina
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +2 Dodge Rating
Durability 55 / 55
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases defense rating by 15.
Equip: Increases the block value of your shield by 33.

vs:
703 armor
+45 stam
+23 def
+22 expertise

So you get less block value - but you get more stamina (or the same stamina if you go with a SSoE), more def, and more armor. Plus, you get expertise, which (by itself) reduces the dodge/parry chance by about 6%.

The expertise is what sells it, especially when you realize that AS,melee, and most importantly RD all use hit mechanics now. And they're cheap as hell. That, and getting expertise is going to be hard for paladins.

If you don't want that at all, go with the chest just because it's so hard to get good chest upgrades and that chest is amazing.
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Postby Furiouso » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:14 pm

kalbear wrote:The expertise is what sells it, especially when you realize that AS,melee, and most importantly RD all use hit mechanics now. And they're cheap as hell. That, and getting expertise is going to be hard for paladins.


Hm expertise reduces chance to have your attacks dodge or parried, but I don't think I've ever seen AS or am not sure RD will be able to be dodged or parried. I'm guessing only +hit rating will help that.

Also, I was under the impression that the bracers carry expertise *rating*, not expertise. It'll convert at a factor of 4 to 1 or so, so you'll get about 1% attack dodge and parry reduction, which is still nice. Esp. since parry thrashing by the boss will be reduced.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:14 pm

20 expertise rating is not 20 expertise. Given that all weapon skill rating has been converted to expertise rating, I'm assuming the rating ro stat ratio is the same for 3.9 expertise rating = 1 expertise, giving 5.12 expertise from the bracers.

As an aside, I'd be interested to see your expertise -> threat calculations.
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Postby kalbear » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:45 pm

Ah, you're right. It's only 1.5% to dodge/parry then. They're still pretty good even without that rating; you're getting more armor and def in favor of block rating.

I just know that RD is using hit mechanics; I don't know if anyone knows whether it's using some dodge/parry mechanics or whether expertise will modify it. I don't, but it could. You're probably right though; it probably won't.

As to calculations: 20 expertise rating = 5 expertise (about), meaning it will increase your hits by 2.56%. Now it depends on what your actual threat is, but if you assume about 40% of your threat comes from SoR/Melee, you get another 1% threat boost from that alone. And that doesn't include the bonus from not dealing with parry gibs or the more procs you get from JoW. Is 1% threat + bonuses worth a loss in block value and a gain elsewhere? I would think the answer is yes. However it's not worth nearly as much as I was thinking.

If you've got those bracers already, like I said above - go for the chest. That'll give you the options for the T5 legs later.
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Postby Erd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:08 pm

meh, I'll probably get the bracers but not first. The chest alone will give me 45+ extra stamina.
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Postby Mortehl » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:18 pm

Do NOT undervalue weapon expertise. Those bracers are sex if WE continues to function on live the way it is on the PTR right now.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:25 pm

Mortehl wrote:Do NOT undervalue weapon expertise. Those bracers are sex if WE continues to function on live the way it is on the PTR right now.


Honestly, if kalbear's number are correct, spell damage is still a better threat stat for us point for point: 20 expertise rating ~= 23.4 + dam (via wowwiki). If that 2- expertise rating ~= 1% threat boost, then the expertise only starts to pull ahead once we hit over 1100 sustained tps on a single target. To me, that suggests ignoring expertise and trying to pick up spell damage for now (of course, decreasing parry chance is nice so I could see picking it up for that).

You seem pretty emphatically in favor of expertise though, so I'd love to hear what your experiences have been.
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Postby cordelia » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:38 pm

Dorvan wrote:You seem pretty emphatically in favor of expertise though, so I'd love to hear what your experiences have been.


Me too, I want to hear about this. Does it add to RD/AS significantly? or is it the parry? None of those seem like a big deal to me.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:04 am

Furiouso wrote:
kalbear wrote:The expertise is what sells it, especially when you realize that AS,melee, and most importantly RD all use hit mechanics now. And they're cheap as hell. That, and getting expertise is going to be hard for paladins.


Hm expertise reduces chance to have your attacks dodge or parried, but I don't think I've ever seen AS or am not sure RD will be able to be dodged or parried. I'm guessing only +hit rating will help that.


AS and RD are considered Ranged and as such cannot be dodged or parried.
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