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[Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

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[Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby halabar » Sat May 16, 2009 10:50 am

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Since I don't need to farm much anymore, and I'm tired of what Blizz has done to my hunter, I've decided to start leveling my Shammy again.. I don't want another melee class, so I'm gonna level Ele so I learn it well (currently lvl 35)

So, what are some good sites for learning the Ele shammy ways?..

(The threads at EJ aren't very useful right now. I couldn't even find good discussions on builds easily. EJ hunter and pally forums are much more useful.)
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Re: Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Epimer » Sat May 16, 2009 11:58 am

Haven't found one :) Went looking when I was levelling my own shammy as elemental, and came up short. What do you find lacking in the EJ threads? There's a suggested (level 80, of course) build in there, but to be honest the elemental tree is very clearly separated into PvE/PvP talents and doesn't allow for much variation because of it.

Elemental levelling was a little painful until all the mana regeneration talents are in place, and nature-immune mobs are a complete pain. I found the easiest way to deal with them was to drop Magma Totem, Frost Shock on cooldown and basically heal tank them. It's not pretty. Alternatively, skip those quests...
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Re: Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby halabar » Sat May 16, 2009 12:33 pm

Epimer wrote:Elemental levelling was a little painful until all the mana regeneration talents are in place, and nature-immune mobs are a complete pain. I found the easiest way to deal with them was to drop Magma Totem, Frost Shock on cooldown and basically heal tank them. It's not pretty. Alternatively, skip those quests...


Kinda like skipping caster-mobs when leveling as Prot?.. :D

The EJ threads seem to be dominated by a few posters (Bink for one) who have quit playing but are still theorycrafting... the only way I found a lvl 80 build was looking them up on the armoury. That said, the lvl 80 build seems to be a cookie-cutter with very little variation.
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Re: Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Epimer » Sat May 16, 2009 3:03 pm

The "Recommended Builds" section of the TTT lists this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hVI0qcdItGfzAo0xxco:bpk

...which is slightly weird. Ignoring the 2 missing points, Elemental Warding is one of those PvPish talents, although there's an argument for its usefulness based on the amount of raid damage flying about in Ulduar. At my gear level and without a reliable source of replenishment (yay 10 mans with weird compositions) I need 5/5 Convection to avoid mana issues. Convection is the first place to take points from if you fancy anything else, though; for example, we have an ele shaman who's taken Imp Ghost Wolf at the cost of two points in Convection, which works fine for him. The rest of it is, as you say, cookie cutter.
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Re: Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby mavfin » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:28 am

At lower levels, flametongue or windfury is best, use your totems to help you, and heal yourself. Wear a shield, use the armor totem, and use chain lightning to keep mobs on you while you heal-tank them and magma or searing totems burn them up. In outland, you start getting spelldamage gear, and you can actually *be* an elemental shaman.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:01 am

So I'm gearing up my Elemental alt. Any thoughts on the best stats, particularly Haste vs Crit? I've read somewhere that you want to get your cast times down to a certain amount (Haste), but the best Elemental shaman I know says to stack Crit. He even stacks it to the point of neglecting Hit, which is very contrary to the EJ orthodoxy.

According to EJs, it's Hit first, then spellpower, but I'd love to hear thoughts about Haste vs Crit, or any tips on Elemental gearing.

:)
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby GothicPL » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:14 pm

Fedaykin98 wrote:So I'm gearing up my Elemental alt. Any thoughts on the best stats, particularly Haste vs Crit? I've read somewhere that you want to get your cast times down to a certain amount (Haste), but the best Elemental shaman I know says to stack Crit. He even stacks it to the point of neglecting Hit, which is very contrary to the EJ orthodoxy.

According to EJs, it's Hit first, then spellpower, but I'd love to hear thoughts about Haste vs Crit, or any tips on Elemental gearing.

:)


There are some "sweet spots" for haste, in that if you're close to them, haste becomes much more valuable than otherwise, as it allows you to cast additional spells between Lava Bursts.

In addition, you need to dance around the hit cap depending on whether you raid with a shadow priest or with a moonkin who specs 3/3 imp FF.

In general, hit is the best stat til capped, then it's spell power, then it's haste and crit. Sometimes stats prop up higher depending on your gear, raid buffs, fight duration, etc.
Even the best recommended food buff will change depending on other factors.

To optimize your gear and gemming, use Rawr, it's awesome: http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:25 am

I use Rawr a lot on my main, a Ret Pally, but I won't use it on my Shaman until he's much further along gear-wise. He may have as many Greens as Purps right now.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Epimer » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:14 am

Fedaykin98 wrote:but the best Elemental shaman I know says to stack Crit. He even stacks it to the point of neglecting Hit, which is very contrary to the EJ orthodoxy.


I don't think he knows what he's doing. Consider that crit offers no benefit for your highest damage (although not your highest percentage of damage) ability because it's an auto-crit, and that your FS DoT can't crit and its direct damage portion is small, so crit only benefits your Lightning Bolt casts. LB has a naturally high crit chance through talents, and given the decay in the effectiveness of crit (each percentage of crit is a smaller dps than the previous percentage gain) and it starts to become a fairly mediocre dps stat for elemental. Take it on gear, for sure, but as a general rule it's not something you aim to stack.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby majiben » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:36 am

Epimer wrote:given the decay in the effectiveness of crit (each percentage of crit is a smaller dps than the previous percentage gain)
That's not right. Each percentage of crit is the same same dps increase but a smaller percentage of increase in your dps. That said crit is not the best stat for an elemental shaman.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Epimer » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:36 pm

Majiben wrote:
Epimer wrote:given the decay in the effectiveness of crit (each percentage of crit is a smaller dps than the previous percentage gain)
That's not right. Each percentage of crit is the same same dps increase but a smaller percentage of increase in your dps.


Apologies, I worded that poorly. Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby mavfin » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:58 pm

Fedaykin98 wrote:So I'm gearing up my Elemental alt. Any thoughts on the best stats, particularly Haste vs Crit? I've read somewhere that you want to get your cast times down to a certain amount (Haste), but the best Elemental shaman I know says to stack Crit. He even stacks it to the point of neglecting Hit, which is very contrary to the EJ orthodoxy.

According to EJs, it's Hit first, then spellpower, but I'd love to hear thoughts about Haste vs Crit, or any tips on Elemental gearing.

:)


Hit, then spellpower/crit...till 75, then crit becomes a LOT less important, because Lava Burst is 100% crit with a flameshock on the mob. After 75, I just let gear supply whatever crit.

On my 80 elem shaman, I do hit first, then I stack spellpower and haste, and let gear take care of crit. I have near 500 passive haste, and I'm partial Naxx-10, partial Uld-10 gear, with a sprinkling of Naxx-25.
Last edited by mavfin on Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby mavfin » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:00 pm

GothicPL wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:So I'm gearing up my Elemental alt. Any thoughts on the best stats, particularly Haste vs Crit? I've read somewhere that you want to get your cast times down to a certain amount (Haste), but the best Elemental shaman I know says to stack Crit. He even stacks it to the point of neglecting Hit, which is very contrary to the EJ orthodoxy.

According to EJs, it's Hit first, then spellpower, but I'd love to hear thoughts about Haste vs Crit, or any tips on Elemental gearing.

:)


There are some "sweet spots" for haste, in that if you're close to them, haste becomes much more valuable than otherwise, as it allows you to cast additional spells between Lava Bursts.

In addition, you need to dance around the hit cap depending on whether you raid with a shadow priest or with a moonkin who specs 3/3 imp FF.

In general, hit is the best stat til capped, then it's spell power, then it's haste and crit. Sometimes stats prop up higher depending on your gear, raid buffs, fight duration, etc.
Even the best recommended food buff will change depending on other factors.

To optimize your gear and gemming, use Rawr, it's awesome: http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr


My gear set on my elemental (I'm a JC) is set up at 11% hit from gear one way, eating fish feast/spellpower food, if I have shadowpriest/moonkin in the raid. OR, I switch out one of my haste proc trinkets (badge one) for the Twilight Serpent JC trinket (1.6% hit) and eat hit food to make up the other 1.4%, i.e. 14% from gear, 3% from talents.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby vegardhv » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:48 am

Do ele shamans do a decent amount of damage to make them viable for raids? in Wowwiki, and maybe some other places I've seen statements along the lines of "Enhancement Shamans are the way to go for damage output". I'm currently leveling a shaman, and just went enhancement, but the initial plan was to go elemental, because I wanted a caster after only having tried meleeing/huntarding.
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Re: [Shaman] Good sites for Ele shamans?

Postby Epimer » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:56 am

They're absolutely fine, especially through Naxx. In a "stand still and nuke" type environment, their single target dps is certainly competitive, but movement fights make them suffer quite a bit. I won't comment on Ulduar because my shaman's an alt and hasn't seen past Flame Leviathan.

I will say that they scale very well with initial gear upgrades; I dinged 80 and went straight into VoA25 and hit 3k dps on Archavon. Later in the week with a handful of badge upgrades and a little practice and I was doing 3.6k on Patchwerk. A guildie who is perhaps less interested in class mechanics and not so clued up on optimal gearing etc similarily dinged 80 on her ele shaman, threw on some BoE items and was pushing 3.5k on Patch that very week. It's an easy spec to get to grips with.
Last edited by Epimer on Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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