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Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Threatco » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:32 am

Ulduar is a long instance.

Even attemping hard mode 1-2 times on each boss before moving on makes it take a LONG time.

Even in my 10 man. Even with people eager to try hard modes. Wiping on bosses when you could have done easy mode and moved on is hard on moral. And you end up having to call it before freya instead of before yogg as you had hoped.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Avengeance » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:51 am

Ulduar isnt that long - probably not longer than Naxx ever was - I managed to clear U25 full normal mode in 4 hours.

I agree FL was harder than some other hard modes (at least for 10 men), but it wasnt hard because of the changes they just made, it was hard mainly coz of bugs... vehicles despawning, hodir beams iceblocking a tank even tho its no way near the beam, or interupts not working.... or tanks not doing any damage etc .
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Threatco » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:59 am

Are those bugs still there?
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby moduspwnens » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:09 am

Ice blocks hitting vehicles "no where near" them isn't a bug, that's just latency. You have to assume that the game thinks that you're a half-second to a second behind where you actually are. I started out as a siege engine gunner and watched my driver get hit 3 or 4 times. Each time he said, "Did you see that?! We were nowhere close!" On my screen, we were under it, so I thought he was just stupid. Then I drove one and realized that it's latency. On the gunner's screen, you can see where the vehicle actually is in relation to the beam from the server's point of view. In the driver's seat, that's just something you have to compensate for. In that sense, it's a bug, but latency is likely something that you'll have to work around because it's unlikely to get "fixed" any time soon.

The only other bug I've seen over a combined 12 hours or so of attempts (10 and 25) is our demolishers occasionally just saying that they're "bugged," and then we wipe. I'm not sure if they can't pick up pyrite or can't shoot it, or what, but that's all that I've seen as far as "bugs."

EDIT: Well, and it would be cool if he'd insta-gib whoever's on him in the event of a wipe rather than shoot them off, reset, reaggro, kill them, then insta-gib whoever unsuspectedly ran in, but that's more of an annoyance than a bug. ;)
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Conaan! » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:36 pm

to the people saying control for yoggy phase 1, that only works to a point, RNG still screws you over, just like i said, i AS'd the guy following the tank in, that there slows him, forcing him to dispel himself to not hit a cloud, before he can dispel me, so i can pick up the add, the fight isnt that much easier without mc's, and even with mc's, most of the time it wouldnt do much more then get hit by rogues using FOK or warrior whirlwinding
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Levantine » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:00 pm

moduspwnens wrote:The only other bug I've seen over a combined 12 hours or so of attempts (10 and 25) is our demolishers occasionally just saying that they're "bugged," and then we wipe. I'm not sure if they can't pick up pyrite or can't shoot it, or what, but that's all that I've seen as far as "bugs."


Occasionally when the passenger is in the launching seat when Leviathan is engaged, the Demolishers bug the fuck out and the driver can't do anything at all except move.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Dorvan » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Avengeance wrote:Ulduar isnt that long - probably not longer than Naxx ever was - I managed to clear U25 full normal mode in 4 hours.

I agree FL was harder than some other hard modes (at least for 10 men), but it wasnt hard because of the changes they just made, it was hard mainly coz of bugs... vehicles despawning, hodir beams iceblocking a tank even tho its no way near the beam, or interupts not working.... or tanks not doing any damage etc .


Yeah, I'd kinda have to agree that once Ulduar is on farm a straight normal run isn't going to take much longer than a Naxx run. I was in a PuG of experienced people that cleared Uld10 through Auriaya today in just under 2 hours, and weren't specially trying to race through, plus we wiped a couple times.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Joanadark » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:08 pm

it was hard mainly coz of bugs... vehicles despawning, hodir beams iceblocking a tank even tho its no way near the beam, or interupts not working.... or tanks not doing any damage etc .


half those things arent bugs, youre just doing it wrong.
Hodir beams catching you is poor driving and bad latency.
Interrupts not working is lack of understanding of the mechanic of the actual interrupt spell.
And if your demos are bugging out, dont have the passenger start out loaded up...duh.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby PsiVen » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:16 am

Interrupts definitely bug, and frequently. That's one thing they haven't fixed yet. Sometimes it's a resist (miss) or out of range, but about 30% of my interrupts fail outright while still doing damage, and I don't think it's intended that you can't move while casting it.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:32 am

If a tree add is closer to you than the boss, the intrrupt itsself hits the tree, rather than FL, even though the damage goes where you intended.
You can call that a bug, but its 100% managable and something you just work with.

In my experience, people tend to call mechanics they either dont understand or that they find too difficult to work with "bugs", when they arent necessarily.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Treck » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:00 am

Joanadark wrote:If a tree add is closer to you than the boss, the intrrupt itsself hits the tree, rather than FL, even though the damage goes where you intended.
You can call that a bug, but its 100% managable and something you just work with.

In my experience, people tend to call mechanics they either dont understand or that they find too difficult to work with "bugs", when they arent necessarily.


IDD, it happends so ofthen.
Sometimes ppl go "oh bugg i hate this encounter so bugged blizz fix it ffs" on simple things they just dont know how to handle, and i think to myself its stupid and "noobish" from my fellow raiders tbh.
I always try to immagine there is no buggs, things might not be working as intended, but they dont have to be buggs cuz of that.
The "bugging" flame out of his spawn point, to die and enter again before he makes it back, thus not regaining health, id call that an abuse of a bug. And its clearly not programmed to 100%.
The interrupt on flame works that way that its a cone effect of lightning that is beeing used if there is anything to target, so if your facing away from the boss but theres a plant infront of you, you can use the interrupt, but it wont hit flame.
The actual interrupt only goes only for one target aswell as ive noticed on trash atleast, might be closest, might be what you target, im not 100% sure. But ive never seen any misses of it, but then i dont rly look at what dmg i do when driving since the dmg output is so low anyway ^^
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:46 am

Joanadark wrote:If a tree add is closer to you than the boss, the intrrupt itsself hits the tree, rather than FL, even though the damage goes where you intended.
You can call that a bug, but its 100% managable and something you just work with.

In my experience, people tend to call mechanics they either dont understand or that they find too difficult to work with "bugs", when they arent necessarily.


Electroshock

That pretty clearly states all targets within a 25 yard cone. Therefore, if it's not shocking and interrupting all targets within a 25 yard cone, that's a bug. It doesn't matter if it can be worked around or not, or even if it's easily or not very easily worked around. That is 100% irrelevant to whether or not it's a bug. If it's not doing what it says it's supposed to, it's a bug.

I've done this encounter, and it is quite easily worked around and certainly shouldn't be holding you back. That doesn't change that it should be fixed and isn't working as intended, though.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Passionario » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:53 am

As long as the primary bottleneck to meta achievement/Algalon access remains lethal, I don't see a problem.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby Avengeance » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:02 am

Algalon isnt even needed in Glory of Ulduar Raider. The bottle neck is Mimiron for that.
Like I said, the nerfs are not justified - its highly unnecessary, encounters like FL dont need nerfs, but "bug" fixing or fine tuning to make it a tad more user friendly, instead of taking 30M hp off the boss and make vehicles run 20% faster.
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Re: Yog, FL, and XT massive nerfs hotfixed in

Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:08 am

Avengeance wrote:Algalon isnt even needed in Glory of Ulduar Raider. The bottle neck is Mimiron for that.


He means Mimiron.
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