Vezax Hard Mode OT

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Nadir » Tue May 26, 2009 3:11 am

I'm at a loss here. Is there anyway to improve Paladin's role as a Saronite Animus tank? Even with Seal of Wisdom + Judgement of Wisdom, you cannot maintain a SoTR > HoTR > JoW rotation without going OOM while you're in the initial Vezax burn phase.

In my ten man I used the following build in order to allow me to maintain ~2200 DPS on Vezax for the first 80% without going OOM.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0xA0u ... h0o:p0GVcm
Surprisingly I was able to keep threat on the Animus.

Is there a better solution to our mana problems other than such a fubar build or going AFK until the 8th vapor spawns? Perhaps using Seal of Blood plus the SoB glyph?
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Panzerdin » Tue May 26, 2009 4:00 am

The only way you're getting mana back is if you take damage or spec ret. Speccing ret isn't an option, so you're stuck with the damage. Either use SoB or ask if it's OK for you to stand in a Shadow Crash.
User avatar
Panzerdin
 
Posts: 5504
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 2:51 pm
Location: On a picket line, protesting against the changes to Maintankadin

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Jasari » Tue May 26, 2009 6:24 am

If you're not tanking Vezax during the first phase you're going to be pretty much worthless. I'd use Divine Sacrifice (without bubble) and Hand of Sacrifice liberally to get some mana back from healing. Just be sure to let your healers know that you're going to be doing this.

Also, SoW and JoW don't return any mana so there's no reason to be using them.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Nadir » Tue May 26, 2009 3:44 pm

Brilliant design, Blizzard. Bring the class, not the player.

I'll try Divine Sacrifice + SOB/sob glyph on the next attempt.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Jasari » Wed May 27, 2009 5:49 am

Nadir wrote:Brilliant design, Blizzard. Bring the class, not the player.

I'll try Divine Sacrifice + SOB/sob glyph on the next attempt.


Yeah, for the most part I've thought Ulduar was really well designed, but I think Vezax is a retarded fight. Fundamentally altering game mechanics is a bad idea. It makes it so all the mp5 or spirit on gear is pretty much worthless, all the "you still regenerate some mana while casting" talents are useless, and it makes Paladin off tanks completely worthless on hard mode. If the fight was more tightly tuned, it'd really promote respeccing and regeared/gemming around the fight mechanics. As it is, we had our priests respec disc for progression on him. And we went from wiping 10 times one night and getting him no lower than like 75%. To 2-shotting him the next night because disc is so much better for the fight than holy... and I needed the Pain Suppression to use the "don't kite him" strat.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby moduspwnens » Wed May 27, 2009 7:28 am

Jasari wrote:If you're not tanking Vezax during the first phase you're going to be pretty much worthless. I'd use Divine Sacrifice (without bubble) and Hand of Sacrifice liberally to get some mana back from healing. Just be sure to let your healers know that you're going to be doing this.

Also, SoW and JoW don't return any mana so there's no reason to be using them.


Indeed. If you time it correctly (at least in my experience on 25s), you can have either HoSac or DivSac up for each and every time he enrages. Well, more for when he's just finished enraging. From what I've found, your tank is much more likely to die after the kiting (while healers are repositioning), so aside from tossing out the occasional Salv, that's about as useful as I could be.

If you have the option (and the MT isn't a Paladin), I'd ask to tank Vezax. That's really the only way you can be optimal in this situation.
I rule.
moduspwnens
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Shattered Hand

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Awyndel » Thu May 28, 2009 8:45 am

Well either main tank it, or auto attack imo. Getting damage deliberately is just gonna waste your healers mana and attention, it's not like you're gonna do a lot of dps.

A paladin can maintank this, we have a fine combination of health, avoiddance, and the block cap. You can have others use cooldowns on you every second surge. Like hand of sacrifice, intervene, pain suppression etc. Avoidance on use trinkets also help with the 30% cooldown surges. Is there a chance that you die? Yes. But in my opinion that chance always exists in a non overhealing scenario, and with the correct gear the paladin might even have less chances of dying here then others.
User avatar
Awyndel
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:49 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Nadir » Thu May 28, 2009 2:38 pm

My co-tank is an equally well geared DK, thus he is a superior choice for place-tanking during surges with IBF. We have a shaman and druid healing, so there aren't any external mitigation CDs that can be used. In such a mana dependent fight, losing 1800-2200ish OT DPS over the first eight vapors is significant. Auto attacking is not an acceptable solution.

I suppose Blizzard needs to change Guarded by the Light so that it makes Divine Plea work during Vezax. Of course a Corrupted Wisdom type mechanic would have to be added in order to stop healer exploits. There shouldn't be a 10 man encounter in Ulduar where one type of tank is so severely gimped in the offtanking role.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Akairos » Fri May 29, 2009 8:44 am

Nadir wrote:My co-tank is an equally well geared DK, thus he is a superior choice for place-tanking during surges with IBF. We have a shaman and druid healing, so there aren't any external mitigation CDs that can be used. In such a mana dependent fight, losing 1800-2200ish OT DPS over the first eight vapors is significant. Auto attacking is not an acceptable solution.

I suppose Blizzard needs to change Guarded by the Light so that it makes Divine Plea work during Vezax. Of course a Corrupted Wisdom type mechanic would have to be added in order to stop healer exploits. There shouldn't be a 10 man encounter in Ulduar where one type of tank is so severely gimped in the offtanking role.

while the lack of external cooldowns is quite an issue, I'd think that the choices of

1. dk is maintank, you can't put out threat on add, you run oom, lose agro, dps dies.
or
2. you main tank, pop trinkets, hope for best during every other surge, dk tank's add, makes good threat, doesn't go oom, dps kills it, boss dies.

Do you have a ret pally? a priest that can respec disc for one fight while one other healer goes to a dps spec?
The subtle tongue, the decieving guile,
they fail when the broadswords sing
Come in an die dogs...I was a man before I was king!
Maintankadin of <Inconceivable>
Akairos
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: JOLLY OL' ENGLAND

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Awyndel » Sat May 30, 2009 7:04 am

If you tank the boss or the add, you wont go oom. You will only go oom if you cast about 5 spells while not tanking anything.

If you have a bunch of paladins in the raid you ALWAYS have external cooldowns. use bubble, use hand of sacrafice. I even believe HoP+HoS works on this fight. Now I don't know the % of the dk's cooldowns, but you can alternate between a 50% one, and a 30% one with about 70% avoidance with trinkets used.
User avatar
Awyndel
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:49 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Levantine » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:49 pm

Death Knights are really only OP if they're Blood on this fight. Mostly because the amount of self healing they do is actually noticable when the healers are struggling for mana.

PS This is a stupid fight.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Triadx » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:08 pm

Personally, I always MT this encounter on 10man (not 25) and never found a need for an OT on hardmode 10man Vezax. Just a matter of blowing cooldowns when things get a bit dicey and saving one for Darkness movement.

From Vezax to Saronite boss dude...I just all abilities till I'm about 20% mana and just use Judge/Righteous Shield and Rightous Hammer just to continue building moderate threat...even with 1 point in Spiritual Attunement, I still have enough to go on.
User avatar
Triadx
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:30 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:54 pm

Levantine wrote:Death Knights are really only OP if they're Blood on this fight. Mostly because the amount of self healing they do is actually noticable when the healers are struggling for mana.

PS This is a stupid fight.


No, IBF makes this fight basically trivial. My guild gave me a shot to tank him in 25 tonight. I had Pain Suppression for the first enrage and BubbleWall for the second. HoSac was all I had for the third (since Salving would have dropped aggro), and I took back to back 37k hits, dead. And then the DK just tanked it.
I rule.
moduspwnens
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Shattered Hand

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:17 am

And yet blizzard decides to nerf the pants off baseline mitigation, leaving the thing that has all the paladins cutting themselves over alone.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: Vezax Hard Mode OT

Postby Arizara » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:20 am

use seal of blood and apply blessing of sanc as the add spawns. the damage may be more healing required, but its either that healer or you auto swinging... if thats not acceptable, then get another non-mana tank to do the add and go holy or ret, which ever is needed. i find optimal healing as a prot pally healing general vezax is holy shock (with 2 t7.5) and instant flash of lights following the crit. its cheap enough on mana that i can go quite some time on the setup and save holy light for the enrages only.
Image
Arizara
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:34 pm

Next

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 1 guest