[Ret-PvP] Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

[Ret-PvP] Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Maihes » Sun May 24, 2009 12:42 am

O hai, I tagged ur thred 4 u. -Baelor

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Cyberllama
~4.1k AP (Might and MotW)
~28.4 Crit (MotW)
496 Resil
22444 Health
203 DPS weapon

To start this out I am looking for actual advice to use while progressing in arena with my Resto Druid buddy, not looking for "Ret is OP reroll noob" or "Faceroll harder" and I am not complaining about classes being under or over powered in this. We just recently started doing arenas this past week, 85 Win 65 Loss, and did the first week with him as boomkin, this week did him as resto and with better gear and so far we have pulled 61 Win 42 Loss.

During WotLK I have very limited PvP experience, and BC I barely did any Arenas (highest I got was ~1820 I believe on my hunter) and for my druid and my gear I feel we are progressing fairly decently. But my major problem is that I am having a hell of a hard time breaking the "tank" of other healers on other teams. I mean quite often I have them sub 10% but before HoW can be thrown they get a heal off through Lifebloom burst, Swiftmend, Shaman self healing, Priest Penance etc. Even if I time BE Silence just as Stun wears off quite often I am still bound by GCD and can not get that killing blow in.

If I am gearing / Speccing / Glyphing wrong, and it is a glaring thing, call me a noob if you have to but any advice is appreciated. I no longer play the game for PvE at all, and actually quit back in March but I am enjoying PvP this time around, it just seems like we win one maybe two games then lose hard to next 1-2 games. Is it our gear ( http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... berchicken ) that is making us basically hit a wall in low to mid 1700's, or is it us being poorly skilled? I try to make Paladins burn their bubbles etc, Druids and Shamans NS, before my hard burn on them, but the fights seem to end up more as whose mana lasts longer, my druid or their healer, quite often it is them due to our gear lvl and their Rogue / Warrior / Ret / DK just hitting my healer harder then I can hit their DPS / Healer.

On a side note I am very quick on Sacrificing / BoPing / DivineSacrificing my team mate as well as Cleansing, so the defensive stuff I have down, it is just the "offensive" part, you know the important part of the DPS on a DPS / Heal 2's team that I feel like I am failing at.
Image
Image
Maihes
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:43 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Corpsicle » Sun May 24, 2009 1:20 am

I haven't played ret as pvp at all, so grain of salt hehe. :) I did notice that you use only 3 of the 5 pvp pieces, so you are missing out on the 4 pc bonus. It would probably vary based on timing, luck, etc, but the 4 pc bonus lowers the cooldown on judgement to 7 seconds, from 8. While 1 second isn't 'that' big a deal, it could perhaps let you get a bit more burst out and just eek out that killing blow you are seeking. I know when I've gone ret pve, I can really feel the difference between having and not having the tier 7 4 pc bonus. PVP might be likewise, I just don't know.

Burst wise to finish off the dps - are you line of sighting the healer? Are you AND your team mate doing burst damage to finish the dps off? I typically heal in arena/pvp (though I haven't touched this season at all) and when I'm using my holy shocks/hammer of wrath/engineering goodies offensively, my dk partner and I do much much better at bursting down an opponent than when I am tunnel vision healing. Typically my partner calls in vent to 'burst target a" down and we coordinate a sub 20% killing blow that way.

Arenajunkies.com could be another resource, if you haven't checked there yet. Also: retpaladin.com (I think they just updated it too hehe).
Corpsicle
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby bub64882 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:12 pm

I am in week 4 of arena as ret w/ a resto druid buddy. I can say that I love facing double DPS teams...we always win, and they are over in a minute or maybe two. Against any healer + dps matchup (most frustrating has been DK+Shaman) the matches take FOREVER. Seriously, as ret, with less AP than you but double your resilence, I just can't kill a healer.

I am very interested to see what, if any, changes come about from the tree druid discussion opened up by Ghostcrawler. Unfortunately Tree's give up a ton of survivability to contribute any DPS, and more DPS is needed when you decide to burst down a healer. My druid is an engineer, and wrist rockets and lightning generator often make the difference. Sometimes it's not enough, or he is kiting on the other side of the map, etc, and in those cases, it's very difficult to seal the deal on the healer. We are finding that when he shifts to help burst, he usually ends up dying, and us losing. Contrast that w/ a Shaman, Priest, or Holy Paladin, none of which sacrifice their base CC or Offensive spells to gain survivability or maximum effective healing.

Only advice I can offer is make sure you are popping wings+trinkets with all your offensive spells off cooldown when you decide to kill a healer, and hope the RNG is in your favor. Other than that obvious bit, I feel your pain, but your not alone!
bub64882
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Gorgonnash

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Spectrum » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:28 pm

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who read that as, "Seeking to date Ret. Advice for pvp. (serious)"

Sounded hot...
Spectrum
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Silvermoon, Alliance

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Faro » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:34 pm

Corpsicle wrote:
Arenajunkies.com could be another resource, if you haven't checked there yet. Also: retpaladin.com (I think they just updated it too hehe).


Don't go to arenajunkies and hope to get any serious discussion. I've seen less trolls in Zul'Farak.

OP, if you have any specific questions I'll be happy to help, we're geared about the same, running the same comp, and have the same rating. I PVP'd as ret in s4, and this is my druid's first time in arenas so we're kinda working our way up there slowly.

Edit: I'd recommend your druid go for more spirit than spellpower, and a Resi pvp trinket over his current one. Being above 1k resilience is a big deal vs dks and, in the long run, most mana wars. I've found that we're 50/50 or worse vs the majority of healer/dps teams and all of the healer/physical dps teams except enhance shaman. One sure fire we've found to win a game is to let their healer think he's safe enough to go drink, then burst either him or his partner down. If you can get to him it's pretty much a guaranteed kill if you have wings+the ap trinket up as all hits will crit. If you can't get to him go for his partner and cc train him to death.

Also, Glyph of Turn Evil is very good against dks. A feared ghoul can't be consumed for HP, so it helps in killing a dk. Fearing a gargoyle takes pressure off your druid as a dk can randomly score kills with just a back to back scourge strike crit+gargoyle out. I like glyph of judgement for the damage, but glyph of HoJ is perfectly acceptable.
"Safiyas, if you don't stop screwing up I'm going to replace you with someone that has a Y chromosome." -Laethalas
Nikachelle on the Jewelcrafting Nerf- "Called my boyfriend up and told him. Think I ruined his day. :s"
Image
Faro
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Faro » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Maihes wrote:
On a side note I am very quick on Sacrificing / BoPing / DivineSacrificing my team mate as well as Cleansing, so the defensive stuff I have down, it is just the "offensive" part, you know the important part of the DPS on a DPS / Heal 2's team that I feel like I am failing at.


I was going to edit but I feel like this deserves it's own post. The defensive stuff is the most important part of this comp. If you can outlast the other team then you are usually going to win. The only thing you need to worry about for offense is keeping pressure on the healer to wear his mana out and make *dam* sure he doesn't get a drink off unless you want him to. You're a defensive team that uses it's burst to it's advantage, and don't you ever forget that.
"Safiyas, if you don't stop screwing up I'm going to replace you with someone that has a Y chromosome." -Laethalas
Nikachelle on the Jewelcrafting Nerf- "Called my boyfriend up and told him. Think I ruined his day. :s"
Image
Faro
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Robbo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 pm

http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=112539

I'd recommend you and your druid watching that. The real strength of your comp comes through when your druid can play offensively. By offensively, I mean cycloning stuff. With your comp you should really be focusing the dps. If you play it right, you can burst through someone in the first few seconds with good cc.
Image
Robbo
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Atlanta GA

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Fedaykin98 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm

I really like HoJ glyph for the help in chain CCing someone. Kind of week for a major glyph, but very useful.
Image
User avatar
Fedaykin98
 
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Selgar » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:21 am

bub64882 wrote:I am in week 4 of arena as ret w/ a resto druid buddy. I can say that I love facing double DPS teams...we always win, and they are over in a minute or maybe two. Against any healer + dps matchup (most frustrating has been DK+Shaman) the matches take FOREVER. Seriously, as ret, with less AP than you but double your resilence, I just can't kill a healer.


I had the same problem wearing all the resilience gear. I finally got fed up and put on my pve gear +pvp trinket. Won a bunch of matches after that, (I assume this will only work at sub1600 ranks as when you start fighting people with a clue you will need the resilience).
Image
Selgar
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:39 am

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Faro » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:48 am

You never really need more than 650, and a 2600 ret friend of mine is under the impression that good rets don't resilience. Then again he teams with a disc priest : /. I'm personally not going sub 600 ever. Four piece PvE+Furious Gloves+Furious offpieces in every slot. And a resilience trinket :(.
"Safiyas, if you don't stop screwing up I'm going to replace you with someone that has a Y chromosome." -Laethalas
Nikachelle on the Jewelcrafting Nerf- "Called my boyfriend up and told him. Think I ruined his day. :s"
Image
Faro
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby bub64882 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:00 pm

I am considering a respec to pick up some more DPS at the cost of some utility...Given the Ret+Resto Drood comp, can anyone critique my talents? Link in my sig. Specifically, I am wondering about eye for an eye, the 3% more damage against humanoids, and the 20% stat debuff proc. I skipped em for survivability, and think I need to re-evaluate that...

Thanks!
bub64882
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Gorgonnash

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Faro » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:27 pm

bub64882 wrote:I am considering a respec to pick up some more DPS at the cost of some utility...Given the Ret+Resto Drood comp, can anyone critique my talents? Link in my sig. Specifically, I am wondering about eye for an eye, the 3% more damage against humanoids, and the 20% stat debuff proc. I skipped em for survivability, and think I need to re-evaluate that...

Thanks!

No link in the sig, but don't take eye for an eye. You want crusade, and you want vindication. If you're trading those for 5% parry that's a bad decision. You can check my dual spec ret by armorying me, and switch the points from vengeance into fanaticism (righteous vengeance still breaks repentance so that's a no go :?)
"Safiyas, if you don't stop screwing up I'm going to replace you with someone that has a Y chromosome." -Laethalas
Nikachelle on the Jewelcrafting Nerf- "Called my boyfriend up and told him. Think I ruined his day. :s"
Image
Faro
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby bub64882 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:35 pm

bub64882
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Gorgonnash

Re: Seeking up to date Ret advice for pvp (serious)

Postby Faro » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:41 pm

bub64882 wrote:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gorgonnash&n=Tusentak

No, no parry here!


Take the points out of righteous vengeance and put them into crusade. Swap your seal of command point into Vindication, and then take either one point from Heart of the Crusader, Imp BoM, or Toughness and put it into the last point of Vindication. I recommend Imp BoM, as Heart gives you debuff that's actually useful and provides as fodder for your druids' roots. Also, they can't dispel toughness off you like BoM :(
"Safiyas, if you don't stop screwing up I'm going to replace you with someone that has a Y chromosome." -Laethalas
Nikachelle on the Jewelcrafting Nerf- "Called my boyfriend up and told him. Think I ruined his day. :s"
Image
Faro
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm


Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest