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[Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

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[Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Unstopavincible » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:50 am

Hey friends,

I'm relatively new to the retribution raiding experience and I've only been playing a paladin as my main class since September of '08. As I understand it, I'm supposed to gem and gear myself to be hit capped and expertise capped, then throw everything else in strength and haste. If this is true, If I'm not expertise capped, should I be gemming for expertise? Or using expertise gear over better choices?

Using expertise food and the mark of Norgannon trinket, I end up around 26 expertise exactly, which is cap. Doing heroic hard mode fights in Ulduar I consistently place in a top 10 DPS spot on recount (higher on multiple target fights, obviously) but I'm just wondering if I could get away with using a better trinket over the mark of Norgannon.

Any help on this subject is much appreciated. Thanks!
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Baelor » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:33 am

Unstopavincible wrote:Hey friends,

I'm relatively new to the retribution raiding experience and I've only been playing a paladin as my main class since September of '08. As I understand it, I'm supposed to gem and gear myself to be hit capped and expertise capped, then throw everything else in strength and haste. If this is true, If I'm not expertise capped, should I be gemming for expertise? Or using expertise gear over better choices?

Using expertise food and the mark of Norgannon trinket, I end up around 26 expertise exactly, which is cap. Doing heroic hard mode fights in Ulduar I consistently place in a top 10 DPS spot on recount (higher on multiple target fights, obviously) but I'm just wondering if I could get away with using a better trinket over the mark of Norgannon.

Any help on this subject is much appreciated. Thanks!

In my personal opinion, gem/enchant for hit, then strength. Let the expertise come in on gear however it may.

There is likely a breakpoint where expertise becomes better than strength, but I'm not a math whiz and it requires some mathematical modeling.

Bottom line, at current gear levels, strength is better.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:42 am

Baelor is my gearing guru, and his Ret FAQ can be found at e4ae.blogspot.com.

One thing he didn't address: You don't gear for Haste. Get Hit capped, then gem for STR. Enchant with whatever is strongest in the slot (Rawr is telling me that Haste to Cloak is actually 1 DPS better than AGI, but I haven't done it).

That said, if you're doing U25 Hard modes then you're far ahead of me! :lol:
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Selgar » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:43 pm

What Baelor said. I have found little need to gem/enchant for hit as a lot of the naxx gear has tons of hit on it (Iron-Spring jumpers). I am starting to get a little concerned as I am right at the hit cap and looking at my next set of upgrades I think I am about to lose about 70 hit which would basically mean removing most of my str gems for hit :(
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:51 pm

As usual, Rawr is what you want to go to for this kind of question. Expertise is pretty important for Ret now, but there are better slots to pick it up. Again though, whether the trinket is worth using depends on your other available trinkets and gear.

As for gemming, chances are that if you're working on Ulduar hard modes, you're at a point where Expertise is worth slightly more than strength.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Adelae » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:23 pm

don't forget :

In ulduar, fight requires moving a lot ! so, exp > str if you don't reach the 26exp cap (except for some ridiculous fights as thorim / auriaya and vezax if you don't kite him). I have tested both str and exp, with a 0exp gear.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby majiben » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 pm

Movement doesn't inherently mean more value on expertise. In depending on the movement str maybe more valuable.

Fankly the answer is str and expertise are in a virtual tie. Personally I don't and wouldn't suggest gemming expertise since it's not as valuable on AoE and doesn't require as much regemming should you exceed the dodge cap from a new piece of gear.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby katraya » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:34 am

I'm going to go ahead and add my recommendation to everyone else's - use Rawr. I know when my exp was rather low it still recommended I gem/food buff for strength. However, when putting toghether an ideal gear set it did point me towards the expertise heavy Steelbreaker's Embrace along with 4pc T8. As for the trinket, I think it depends on your other options. Rawr isn't as good at trinket modeling but it should still give you a good idea of what to use.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:10 am

Rawr's trinket modeling is actually pretty good now. There are a couple loose ends still (with 1-2 trinkets that drop from hard modes and thus their exactly proc rate isn't nailed down yet), but most of the options should be correctly modeled at this point.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Unstopavincible » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:16 am

Great advice here guys.

I think I'm just going to stick with strength gems and use a different trinket. That'll put me at like 16 expertise before food and/or mace expertise from being a dwarf.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Robbo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:00 am

Can I just give you some of my exp?

I can't seem to get rid of it nowadays. T_T
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby majiben » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 am

Robbo wrote:Can I just give you some of my exp?

I can't seem to get rid of it nowadays. T_T

Sitting at 30 skill >.< here
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Re: [Ret-PvE] How important is expertise?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:36 am

I'm about 1.5% over hit cap on the paper doll, and am a draenei. It just happens that the gear I have available (offspec pieces that no one else wanted) has buckets of it. Oh well -- means I can gem for strength. :)
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