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General Vezax Hard Mode

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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Dem » Sun May 24, 2009 4:04 pm

Don't know if you saw this thread, but if not
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22833

I tank Vezax without moving in 10 and 25 normal modes. It works for us - use bubble wall every other surge and a healer cd of whatever description for the other, pop avoidance trinkets for this one if you're using them e.g. Heart of Iron.

Use an armor pot before the pull and one during.

Can't offer anything on hard mode but it works normal.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Faro » Mon May 25, 2009 9:13 pm

Cidx wrote: Also in your opinion to attempt Hard Mode do you even need to bother with standing still because In my Opinion Kiting won't hurt DPS.


I gave General Hard mode ~5 attempts last night. We used the kite method because the way I see it is anything you can do to preserve healer mana should be done. I kept shield wall on cooldown, had the ret pally rotate HoS and Divine Guardian, and if anyone took any splash damage they would go melee the boss for JoL heals.

Our first attempt we had two healers totally dry by the time the animus spawned, second attempt two were at 40, third attempt at 60, and fourth/fifth both were above 80% mana. Having that kind of mana going into the animus phase is about the best you can do for the raid, so I completely support the idea of kiting.

I would run straight east to west (we used elune stones to help make sure I kept him straight) and the dps would always stand in the center, about halfway between the west and east points. If someone got mark they ran south (the raid was camped up north) so if they got hit by a shadow crash during mark the casters would still be in range of the boss.

Note: we didn't get the achievement down, some people had to go and we didn't know if everyone would be on today so we just cleared out the instance. We were having a problem with overall dps, General was at ~50 when the animus spawned and the lowest we got the animus was 25 before people started dieing to lolshadowcrash. Casters had 100% time in the shadowcrash, and the setup we ran was Warlock, Ele, Enhance, Blood, Arms, Ret, Resto druid, Holy Priest, Holy Paladin, and Prot Paladin.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby PsiVen » Tue May 26, 2009 5:09 am

Shadowcrash during the Animus phase is killer -- literally, it will one shot casters and DBM ceases to function for this phase so they're not getting warnings they're used to seeing. Make sure they know that, unless you have an updated mod that works properly here. The debuffs remain pretty much for the rest of the fight, so beware the one-shot crashes!

Vezax at 50% when the Animus comes out is pretty slow, but it should be OK if you don't have deaths. Depending on crashes, composition, and Mark failure our 10-man has seen DPS as high as 13% (easy kill) and as low as 56% (berserk wipe at 0.1%).
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Kishandra » Tue May 26, 2009 10:35 am

DBM still functions during Animus. You just have to have someone with the mod targetting Vezax is all. A good choice would be a raid healer.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby kram » Tue May 26, 2009 2:55 pm

just make sure you have someone /focus vezax before the add spawns
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Avengeance » Tue May 26, 2009 4:25 pm

Just did him on 10 men today. Things I noticed:
He stops casting Searing Flames when the add is up.

We ran 1 tank 3 healer (1 holy pala, 2 disc priest), and I was Mting it with 1/2 SA, and mana was a huge problem, i never used consec once from start and I was on 0% mana for at least 1 minute. I managed to hold aggro with just shield slam and judge and tell the dpsers to chill (boss was on around 25% when add spawned). Mana was ok once add spawned, back to 100% and full rotation. But disc priests + pala tank in General hard mode = not good. I even hard ate the Surge of Darkness (rotated shieldwall + HoSac from pala), but I have quite a lot of avoidance so half the time i dont take damage, and even then the damage isnt that big in 10 men after the nerf. I actually even dropped off holyshield between like 60-30% of the boss to take more damage and save mana, so I actually have mana to aggro the Animus when it spawns.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Treck » Wed May 27, 2009 2:57 am

We used 2tanks 3 healers when we were trying this, me MTing and a warrior tanking add, he was also interrupting Searing flames before the add spawned since we had no other reliable interrupter (MS warr/2xsham, will gimp their dps if they are interrupting)
Mana wasnt much of a problem since i run with 2/2 SA.
Threat was a problem, since i was using shieldwall/HoSac+HoSalv rotating the surges. So stopped using HoSalv and just popped 2trinkets+HoSac for every other surge and it worked fine.
However healers were pretty low on mana after the add died and since we only had 5 dpsers he was always on about 30-40%.
ppl also started to fail a lot after the add died, but got general to 6,8,11 adn 15%, but every time there 3+ppl failed on shadowcrashes after the add died, and they oneshot ppl in "P3".
The next day they swiched me with a DK, and all healers were delighted over how much easier it is to heal, that is, how much less dmg a DK takes so they dont have to use as much mana. And they ended up oneshotting it, they did also have 2 other dpsers that had a bit higher dps than what we went with earlier.
DK is OP on this fight, but if we would have had a bit higher dps (or solotanking it) i dont doubt it would have been very much doable with me tanking it.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Splug » Wed May 27, 2009 9:29 am

We ended up using a paladin for the Animus tanking on 25. The early burst threat demand during that phase was too high for the druid / death knight to really manage and switching to a paladin with 2/2 SA completely resolved the issue; the only threat pull after that point was due to an accidental self-BoP. Death strike is extremely strong for the long-term tanking of the general, especially when damage to him stops during p2. The healing threat from DS continues to be effective during that phase as well.

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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Faro » Fri May 29, 2009 11:23 am

Splug wrote:We ended up using a paladin for the Animus tanking on 25. The early burst threat demand during that phase was too high for the druid / death knight to really manage and switching to a paladin with 2/2 SA completely resolved the issue; the only threat pull after that point was due to an accidental self-BoP. Death strike is extremely strong for the long-term tanking of the general, especially when damage to him stops during p2. The healing threat from DS continues to be effective during that phase as well.

-Splug


Any thoughts on 10m? What are your thoughts on the 2 tanks vs 1 tank discussion? I currently tank both but we have a prot warrior who dual specs arms for that fight. Would we be better off having him tank General and me tanking Animus?
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Avengeance » Fri May 29, 2009 12:08 pm

I suggest solo tanking in 10 men - the damage intake is not big at all, no need to waste a dps spot for a tank.
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Splug » Fri May 29, 2009 12:16 pm

For 10, we had a feral druid in damage gear pick him up. Survival Instincts lasts nearly the full time he needs to keep the animus busy, so the health pool was sufficient to make healing safe - and feral damage is pretty crazy right now, so we basically got the benefit of an extra melee damage while still having two tanks handy. We found that having me tank both in 10 was doable, but somewhat dangerous. The higher damage made tank healing much less efficient, and with the damage coming in larger surges it just seemed like using the druid was a better plan.

EDIT: We also have a video of Vezax-hard-25's rear end. One of these days, our ranged need to NOT accidentally delete everything they record... because even with some nice editting work, the fight gets dry when it's just several minutes of staring at Vezax's ankle.

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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Faro » Fri May 29, 2009 1:40 pm

Appreciate both quick responses :).
Splug wrote:For 10, we had a feral druid in damage gear pick him up.


Cheating. I'm assuming you're talking about tanking both on your DK, right Splug?
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Splug » Fri May 29, 2009 2:02 pm

Faro wrote:Appreciate both quick responses :).
Splug wrote:For 10, we had a feral druid in damage gear pick him up.


Cheating. I'm assuming you're talking about tanking both on your DK, right Splug?
Aye. I haven't been doing hard-mode work on my alts. ;)

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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Faro » Fri May 29, 2009 2:18 pm

Splug wrote:Aye. I haven't been doing hard-mode work on my alts. ;)

-Splug


Alright, I love my job as a main tank and I love knowing that I'm doing my job to the best of my abilities. Right now though I really feel like I'm not because a DK could do it better. While I realize a paladin *can* tank everything in the game, is it more efficient from a min/max perspective to reroll to a DK? This is aimed more at Splug than anyone but everyone can chime in :).
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Re: General Vezax Hard Mode

Postby Avengeance » Fri May 29, 2009 2:27 pm

they are losing 20% armour next patch :P And they cant bubble hearth, so dont reroll.
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