[DK] The DK Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Dantriges » Fri May 15, 2009 11:17 am

Levantine wrote:Macro Rune Strike to everything so you can pretty much forget about it. IT-PS will generally beat HB for single target boss fights, the only reason I haven't swapped back to the Icy Touch glyph in my tank build is the sheer level of OP that it is in AoE situations.

Spec's not bad, but 3/5 Bladed Armor will likely beat Subversion for threat. Glyphs are fine.

You were very vague, so that's about the best I can help, sorry. :( Give us a parse of something to see what you're actually doing and how bad your threat actually is. Many specs can and will push your threat to the limit these days. I always freak out at our Arcane mage, since he likes to invis at the last possible second. >_>


Thanks a lot for the help from you and Splug.

I see if I can provide a parse for an analysis.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Fri May 15, 2009 12:04 pm

Levantine wrote:I'm inclined to believe Splug when he says that there's not so much a disadvantage, more a flavor difference that helps a little. Blood on Vexaz where healer mana is limited, for example.

I've personally always been Frost since I'm not fond of the mechanics that Unholy and Blood tanks use, and I've never felt any kind of disadvantage in any fight I've been a part of. Admittedly I'm only 7/14 Ulduar though.


Basically what Lev said, it is mostly personal preference. I've grown very comfortable with Blood, but I will say it is not the spec for you if you're not at (or very close) to hit/exp (soft) cap. I've recently switched out some T7 with T8 which gave me more exp but I lost a good bit of hit and I could really tell.

The threat and damage are awesome and I really like the self healing, I feel naked without it.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Fri May 15, 2009 12:19 pm

Splug wrote:
Levantine wrote:I'd like to see a Death Coil crit for 7000 in tanking gear.
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/ability/4063756/47632/Death%20Coil

(Yeah I know, I cheated - but that there is a 7000 point deathcoil!!11!)

-Splug


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/P3xA ... 75&e=10685

Crit for 6978.3 = /

Does that count?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri May 15, 2009 10:50 pm

Nope, not cool enough. Remind me to look at an XT parse one of these days. Lol at 15k Frost Strikes on his heart in tanking gear with a 200ilvl weapon.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed May 20, 2009 8:13 am

how many of you HATE glyphed Horn of Winter? i would go as far to say it is the biggest waste of a glyphe slot. with the free RP horn gives you now i use it in my rotation. except when there is a random pug DK that has glyped horn now i have to remove it... hmm guess i could make my horn a macro to remove the 3 min buff before i apply mine but ugh. i just wish they would change it to somethign more useful, or make it so you at least get the RP from it like you do when you have a shaman totem down.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby ulushnar » Wed May 20, 2009 8:26 am

I've never been RP-starved enough on my DK to use Horn in that way.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed May 20, 2009 8:32 am

Ulushnar wrote:I've never been RP-starved enough on my DK to use Horn in that way.


not starved but i figure why not its free, even so i have never needed my horn to last two mins with out using it let alone three
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby ulushnar » Wed May 20, 2009 8:35 am

Then don't glyph for it, use another one. I like being able to forget about it for a while.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed May 20, 2009 9:20 am

i dont glyphe it my point is that if another DK in the raid has it, it prevents you from useing your horn unless you remove the three min horn first.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Wed May 20, 2009 9:34 am

My solution was to just beat/ridicule the other two deathknights in the guild until they dropped the glyph, and then not pug stuff on my deathknight. Thus far it has proven effective.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed May 20, 2009 10:19 am

yea everytime i my horn fails and i look up to see a 3 min horn i call out in raid chat "whos fail horn glyph?"
everynow and then i join a pick up 25
sadly we dont have the manpower for solid 25's yet but but when we lead or are a part of one we rape everyone else which makes me sad when we have other people to carry.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Wed May 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Hmm there are three more useful minors, I wonder which one they aren't using...

While looking up DK minor glyphs I came across this gem. I can't even picture where that would useful. Do people dump a lot of RP healing their pet while leveling or something? :?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby TzumaNew » Thu May 21, 2009 8:52 am

Falibard wrote:Hmm there are three more useful minors, I wonder which one they aren't using...
I havent found any of the DK minors to be extremely useful for frost, aside from Pestilence, so horn seems perfect in a non min/max environment. What am I missing?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Kelaan » Thu May 21, 2009 9:39 am

If I understand it correctly, it counts as a "stronger" effect, and thus other DKs in the raid cannot refresh the effect, thereby forcing you to be the horn of winter bitch for the entire fight.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu May 21, 2009 10:12 am

TzumaNew wrote:
Falibard wrote:Hmm there are three more useful minors, I wonder which one they aren't using...
I havent found any of the DK minors to be extremely useful for frost, aside from Pestilence, so horn seems perfect in a non min/max environment. What am I missing?
Glyph of Raise Dead (free ghouls are also a free bag space slot, and the glyph pays for itself in reasonable time) and Glyph of Blood Tap (having access to a quick one-rune recovery is great for use in conjunction with a defensive cooldown. Taking damage to use it makes it a bit more questionable).

Moreover, as mentioned no one else in the raid can use horn of winter if there's a 3 minute effect and they only have a two-minute. It's a potential RP generation source, which becomes important particularly if you are spending a lot of it on rune strikes.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu May 21, 2009 10:34 am

Pestilence, Ghoul, and blood or rune tap all have some usefulness over free 10 Rp that dosnt stop others from using their horn and gaining 10 free RP, Pestilence is a given, preventing HP loss over an extra min of somthing that will benifit you to refresh sooner... k not that big of a deal, but still a better choice IMO, and finally a reagent free ghoul.. saves a bag slot and no " damn i ran out of corpse dust" moments.

my point is that it creates a pain in the ass for other players, there are other options, and with how often you can use horn + get free RP. there are 12 times in 2 min horn can be used most of the time you "can" hit it 8-10 times without throwing anything off. that is 80-100 extra RP and a Minor glyph slot. i would say i refresh my honr every 15-20 sec at the very least. that extra min that isnt used just seems like a waste to me


Bah Splug beat me to the post, dam work kept from finishing my post for like 20 min lol
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby TzumaNew » Fri May 22, 2009 1:23 pm

Splug wrote:
TzumaNew wrote:
Falibard wrote:Hmm there are three more useful minors, I wonder which one they aren't using...
I havent found any of the DK minors to be extremely useful for frost, aside from Pestilence, so horn seems perfect in a non min/max environment. What am I missing?
Glyph of Raise Dead (free ghouls are also a free bag space slot, and the glyph pays for itself in reasonable time) and Glyph of Blood Tap (having access to a quick one-rune recovery is great for use in conjunction with a defensive cooldown. Taking damage to use it makes it a bit more questionable).

Moreover, as mentioned no one else in the raid can use horn of winter if there's a 3 minute effect and they only have a two-minute. It's a potential RP generation source, which becomes important particularly if you are spending a lot of it on rune strikes.

-Splug
Yeah Pestilence and Raise Dead would be the obvious other two, but for a Frost DPS Dk I cant say I was concerned with either Blood Tap or Rune tap glyphs. Both me and the other DK in the guild, both have HoW glyphed, and neither of us are RP starved enough to use it in our rotation. One of us obviously refreshes midfight, but casting it every 15-20 seconds for extra RP I dont need seems to be worth less than the GCD. Though, it may buy me an extra FS at the end of a rotation, I have to imagine this is a wash.

I agree for defensive/tanking options, HoW would likely not be optimal, and is otherwise situational. But to assume that someone that does have it is insta-fail, seemed a bit excessive given the alternatives.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Wed May 27, 2009 7:48 am

4pc T8 allows RP generation from physical attacks? Interesting...
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu May 28, 2009 7:34 am

Meh i solved my problem and finally made a macro for it

#showtooltip horn of winter
/cancelaura horn of winter
/cast horn of winter(rank 2)
/train

works like a charm .

in other news what do you guys think about the frost presence nerf...
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Thu May 28, 2009 7:52 am

Discerpo wrote:in other news what do you guys think about the frost presence nerf...


The sky is not falling. You'll probably lose about 2% mitigation from armor in you're in Ulduar gear, might hurt a bit more for newbie DK tanks. It will just bring raid boss damage more inline with the other tank classes (except maybe bears?). Although with our cooldowns I think DK tanks will still be the top choice for hard mode bosses. (Go go Death Strike awesomeness)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu May 28, 2009 12:17 pm

i saw a pretty good idea posted on the MMO-Champs site. Have frost presence scale with def similarto how IBF does.

one question about how much of any given hit is taken by your block. i know there are other factors like BV but how close does it stack up to our new blade barrier?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Thu May 28, 2009 12:36 pm

Discerpo wrote:i saw a pretty good idea posted on the MMO-Champs site. Have frost presence scale with def similarto how IBF does.

one question about how much of any given hit is taken by your block. i know there are other factors like BV but how close does it stack up to our new blade barrier?


Wouldn't something like that encourage people to stack defense for ridiculous mitigation and avoidance? /shrug.

Blade Barrier is 5% damage reduction against every attack whereas BV is static physical damage reduction which is why it is pretty awesome against weak hitting bosses and trash mobs (full blocks are win) but that static 1200 BV gets kind of lost against say a 22k hit.

I went on kind of a tangent, but it's easier to think of BB as part of a DK's flat damage reduction and comparable to a paladin's glyphed Divine Plea.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu May 28, 2009 12:43 pm

stacking def can be solved by giving the benefit it gives to frost presence DR after 540 ish, or just cap it at 540
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu May 28, 2009 1:04 pm

Discerpo wrote:i saw a pretty good idea posted on the MMO-Champs site. Have frost presence scale with def similarto how IBF does.
That solution fixes the wrong problem. There's already a post by Ghostcrawler stating this is a pve nerf with an acceptable pvp consequence; a defense scaling mechanic would fit the reverse case. It's also needed, and my initial quick calculation says death knights will still have more armor than paladins in equivalent gear.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

i will admit this is my first tank so please forgive some of my ignorance but dosnt that extra armor make up for the lack of block?
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