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PVP retri - help needed inside

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Elsie » Fri May 22, 2009 10:34 am

Elsie one of your major assumptions is ret PvE raid gear. Seems silly to assume that especially now that duel spec means that many prot players will be pvping as ret without the gear accommodations.

I make no assumptions to what people have. I stated priorities, and how I personally chose to obtain them. Considering no one runs naxx on my server as a guild anymore, tier 7.5 shoulders aren't that "gamebreaking" and vault 25 drops t8.5 pants and furious pants. If you're referring solely to the ring situation, then I can still safely say you're better off with pve blues or epics than wasting money on the pvp blue ring since bad is bad.

Helm: Engineer goggles with RED meta and dps enchant
Neck: Deadly neck of triumph
Back: either deadly or hateful of victory w/ parachute enchant
Shoulders: Savage Glad shoulders, which I got right before hateful was buyable with honor, will eventually get hateful shoulders, but want to upgrade other gear first. Using lesser Hodir dps enchant (rep not to exalted yet)
Chest: T7 chest, however I'm 1k honor from the Hateful chest, which I plan on getting tonight. I'll likely put +8 stats (I'm a cheapskate like that) and a STR gem of sorts in it
Wrist: hateful bracers of triumph w/ AP enchant
Hands: I think it's "Gauntlets of Combined Strength" atm. I plan on getting Hateful gloves after the chest. using rocket gloves for enchant
Waist: a DPS belt from naxx (I forget name), socketed with a green gem (I forget which one) for meta requirements in the belt buckle
Pants: Hateful set piece with STR and STA gem (might go to double STR), and dps enchant
Feet: WG boots, Will put nitro boots on it.
Rings: Hateful band of triumph and a naxx DPS ring (forget name)
Trinkets: Currently GLG and MoT. However likely to replace one with DMC: Greatness, but which one? The 1000AP from MoT is good, but I like the double burst on demand of GLG+rocket gloves, even if they're 10 seconds apart.
Weapon: Claymore of Ancient power w/ Greater Savagery (not worth the money for Beserking). Really hoping for an Ironsoul drop from FL-10 tonight.
Libram: the emblem/naxx one with increased damage to Crusader Strike

Your first priority in this list should be the pvp gloves. +5% Crusader Strike damage is huge since it's your strongest burst attack. Your second priority should be getting the wintergrasp gear you can. It's useful for +hit, 4pc isn't that big of a deal, and simply a higher item level than hateful now. Actually, your biggest priority should be a weapon. Run naxx 25, Malygos 10, and Ulduar 10/25 till you want to break your face on the keyboard (Do not try this at home). Even Naxx 10 has an upgrade for you.

Do not use green gems. They are garbage. Use 8 str / 12 stam, +6 stats, and/or +8 str with +8 hit or crit.
Do not use Nitro Boots. They aren't worth it.
Do not use the Parachute enchant. It fails compared to 22 AGI.
Do use DMC: Greatness. It wins due to passive 90 STR.

Finally, don't wait on arena teams. Just pug a 5v5 every week if you can't get 1650 or so in 2v2. Right now you will get points as if you're 1500 rated. Even if you didn't, you should do it for points. Arena points are -not- quickly accumulated. Also, start playing 2v2 or 3v3 now. You might surprise yourself and hit 1500 or so even with subpar gear. This opens up quite a few options with honor gear. There's no benefit to waiting.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Gustov » Fri May 22, 2009 12:27 pm

ok so a macro question for judgement roations. How would I make a macro for cast judgement of justice mod shift judgement of light mod control judgement of wisdom?
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Selgar » Mon May 25, 2009 6:03 am

Gustov wrote:ok so a macro question for judgement roations. How would I make a macro for cast judgement of justice mod shift judgement of light mod control judgement of wisdom?



/cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom; Judgement of Justice
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby majiben » Mon May 25, 2009 3:29 pm

Selgar wrote:
Gustov wrote:ok so a macro question for judgement roations. How would I make a macro for cast judgement of justice mod shift judgement of light mod control judgement of wisdom?



/cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom; Judgement of Justice

I would change it to /cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom; [nomodifier]Judgement of Justice
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Elsie » Mon May 25, 2009 5:39 pm

I don't macro Judgments. I just use one keybind that's usually tied to light, and use justice when I need to for 2v2. A modifier option is basically the same result. You should generally be using Light more than Justice - except possibly in 3v3.

In other news, I spent most the afternoon typing up the PVP guide. It's about 75% done.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby uke » Tue May 26, 2009 7:05 am

Made a lot of progress this weekend:

Snagged Armageddon from Naxx-25, so glad I don't have to stare at my Clymore of Ancient Power or Titansteel Destroyer anymore (and it's a BIG effin' sword!)

Got Hateful gloves and chestpiece with honor points, and got me a nice 4 piece bonus to go along with it.

Still need to get an arena team going. I jumped guilds this weekend since my old one failed at showing up on raid nights, so I'm trying to get in with them.

I've noticed a fairly good jump in survivability in BG's now that I've been getting some resilience (I think i'm close to 500 atm). However, I've not discovered that I can't kill well-geared healers :(. Granted, they can't kill me either, but yeah.....

I've found that JoL does a very nice chunk of healing. Like, significantly-helping-your-survival chunk.

I'm wondering what to do next. Obviously get on an arena team. I'd like to do 3's. 5's is too much of a gibfest, and 2's is too much of a microscope on your character.

Need to do more VoA runs (of which I've had abyssmal luck on drops, but meh)

My only remaining PVE pieces are a Naxx25 belt with hit on it, Engineering goggles, and trinkets. I'm hesitant to get the PVP helm over the goggles as I lose even more crit (at about 24% atm) and I only gain a bit of resilience from them. I suppose Deadly belt would be next (even though I'd still lose more crit, but not as much as the helm).

You may disagree with this, Elsie, but I've put a Vivid Forest Emerald (+sta/hit) in my belt, and stuffed everything else with bold scarlet rubies. I do this because I only need to use one sub-optimal gem for the meta requirement as opposed to spreading it out over two sub-optimal gems.
Pally's been relegated to AH duties.

RAWR'ing it up as a bear now, with a side of boomkin.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Fedaykin98 » Tue May 26, 2009 8:48 am

Question: What 2H enchant do you prefer for Arena? I've seen some using Massacre for the "always on" quality, and some like Berserker for the surprise burstiness. Or, because their love is like a truck. Either one.

Speaking of Burstiness, I can't tell y'all how many times the first kill in a 2v2 match has been a surprise. I'm talking to my partner over Vent coordinating a strategy, we're in the 2nd minute or so of the match, the opposing healer isn't CC'ed, I'm attacking the DPS, and suddenly he's dead. Probably a white swing and Crusader Strike very close together. Seems like few kills result from HoW, which always surprises me. I think the majority of the time, the opposing healer gets a heal in during the GCD between the hit that gets my target sub-20% and the time when I can cast HoW.

We had a good run Monday morning (yay Memorial day!) and got my personal to 1486 and our team over 1450, so I got my Furious Belt! :) Two weeks of Arena, two pieces of Furious gear, and I'm pretty happy with that. We did get very lucky with some of the comps we faced, as we never fought any mages or Resto anything. We did discover some trouble with Hunter/healer, and I'm open for tips on that.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Elsie » Tue May 26, 2009 10:01 am

You may disagree with this, Elsie, but I've put a Vivid Forest Emerald (+sta/hit) in my belt, and stuffed everything else with bold scarlet rubies. I do this because I only need to use one sub-optimal gem for the meta requirement as opposed to spreading it out over two sub-optimal gems.

Why would I disagree? It's a valid method. Personally, I use the +6 stats gem in my t8.5 pants. +8 hit / 12 stam is certainly a viable alternative for pvp, but since my pants are already like this there's no reason to do otherwise.

Question: What 2H enchant do you prefer for Arena? I've seen some using Massacre for the "always on" quality, and some like Berserker for the surprise burstiness. Or, because their love is like a truck. Either one.

Berserking is better in general. Some people like consistency, but it's my opinion ret paladins do not kill things by being consistent.

We did discover some trouble with Hunter/healer, and I'm open for tips on that.

Kite the pet behind a corner and kill it. Hunters are annoying as hell, but a lot of their pressure is gone when you remove LOS and the pet. Keep sacred shield up on yourself and freedom your healer so he doesn't get gibbed in frost trap. Don't trinket anything that can be dispelled. Scatter shot counts as a disorient (breaks on damage). Cleanse is your God sometimes. On certain maps, a decent hunter is amazingly frustrating. BEM and Ruins cater very well to them.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Selgar » Tue May 26, 2009 10:22 am

Majiben wrote:
Selgar wrote:
Gustov wrote:ok so a macro question for judgement roations. How would I make a macro for cast judgement of justice mod shift judgement of light mod control judgement of wisdom?



/cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom; Judgement of Justice

I would change it to /cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Light; [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom; [nomodifier]Judgement of Justice



Umm, just out of curiosity why type 11 extra characters? There is no functional difference between the 2 macros all you did was add a conditional that is not needed. The [nomod] conditional is really only useful when used in conjunction with a second condition such as [nomod, equipped:shield], and when there are multiple [nomod] options. It serves no purpose in a straight modifier macro.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby majiben » Tue May 26, 2009 11:18 am

Could have swore the one you had would give an error message trying to cast the one without a conditional at the same time. My mistake. All I know about macros is from taking about other peoples :-P.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby bub64882 » Tue May 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Excited to hear about progress on the PVP guide, Elsie. Thanks very much for dumping your time into it!

BTW, Shaman + DK are OP. OMG, what a frustrating couple of matches.
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Elsie » Tue May 26, 2009 10:22 pm

BTW, Shaman + DK are OP. OMG, what a frustrating couple of matches.

You have no concept of horror till you lose 150 points to Death Knight / Druid in one night (dropped me from 2350 to 2263).
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Selgar » Wed May 27, 2009 8:54 am

Elsie wrote:In other news, I spent most the afternoon typing up the PVP guide. It's about 75% done.



Eagerly awaiting the other 25% !
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Fedaykin98 » Wed May 27, 2009 8:55 am

Question: Can you sit on your rating in 2s and earn points in 5s, if the math works out to where that's desireable?
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Re: PVP retri - help needed inside

Postby Elsie » Wed May 27, 2009 10:26 am

Question: Can you sit on your rating in 2s and earn points in 5s, if the math works out to where that's desireable?

Yes. If you have,say, 2350 in 2v2 then you can gain points from 5v5.
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