[Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

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[Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Fri May 22, 2009 9:20 am

Last night in U10, someone suggested that AW no longer stacks with Heroism/Bloodlust. I searched around, and I was able to find some kind of patch note suggesting that a bunch of +DPS cooldowns (inc. AW) no longer stack, but the line said nothing about Heroism.

Is there anything to this? The guy who mentioned it seemed to think that it meant we should no longer use AW while Heroism is up - which seems totally bizarre, as the mechanics aren't closely related. I also could imagine a scenario where it meant that we no longer cared whether AW was up during Heroism or some other time, which would actually add a lot of flexibility.

Anyone? :?:
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Dorvan » Fri May 22, 2009 9:21 am

He's full of crap.
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby uke » Fri May 22, 2009 9:31 am

Dorvan wrote:He's full of crap.
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Baelor » Fri May 22, 2009 9:36 am

Your raidmate is incorrect. The changes were to items like the pyro-rocket and lightning generator, giving them a 10-second shared cooldown after use so you can't WTFburst someone in the arena with items.

Topic unlocked, I was wrong. Multiplicative damage increase effects no longer stack (Hysteria + Avenging Wrath, for example). Heroism is a haste buff, not a straight-damage buff. Carry on. -Baelor
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby amh » Fri May 22, 2009 11:02 am

Baelor wrote:Your raidmate is incorrect. The changes were to items like the pyro-rocket and lightning generator, giving them a 10-second shared cooldown after use so you can't WTFburst someone in the arena with items.

Topic unlocked, I was wrong. Multiplicative damage increase effects no longer stack (Hysteria + Avenging Wrath, for example). Heroism is a haste buff, not a straight-damage buff. Carry on. -Baelor


You have been (self)-moderated ^

Long version:

There was actually a change in 3.1, might be what your mate is talking about. Damage-multiplicative abilities no longer stack. Heroism just makes you attack quicker, so it isn´t counted.

The idea was to remove the ability to take for example a retribution-paladin, give him Hysteria + Tricks of the Trade (glyphed) + wings (especially glyphed). These would then add up to something extremely overpowered. Not gonna do the math (because I fail at it), but it became way over the top. These effects no longer stack, but it´s got nothing to do with heroism.


Hysteria, Tricks of the Trade, Enrage, Wrecking Crew, Death Wish, Arcane Power, Owlkin Frenzy, Beast Within, and Avenging Wrath damage bonuses no longer stack together.


Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=835
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Fri May 22, 2009 11:44 am

Okay, that last quote is exactly what I read. I'll continue to stack AW with Heroism where appropriate, then.
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Lore » Fri May 22, 2009 12:41 pm

Worth noting that there are a couple things that don't stack with Heroism, we just don't care about them (Power Infusion, Icy Veins)
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri May 22, 2009 12:46 pm

IV doesn't stack with Heroism? Ugh, I've been Doing It Wrong™
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Dorvan » Fri May 22, 2009 1:45 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:IV doesn't stack with Heroism? Ugh, I've been Doing It Wrong™


Lore is incorrect, IV and Heroism/BL do stack. Heroism/BL and PI do not stack.
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby majiben » Fri May 22, 2009 4:03 pm

Fedaykin98 wrote:Okay, that last quote is exactly what I read. I'll continue to stack AW with Heroism where appropriate, then.
It's worth noting that if your raid isn't using heroism on the pull (or shortly after) you're better off using AW independently of heroism. The reason for this is that 2 AW outside of heroism is a larger dps boost than only one inside Heroism. That is to say if delaying AW at the start to match with heroism so that you miss using another AW at the end of the fight then it's a net dps loss.
Last edited by majiben on Sat May 23, 2009 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Lore » Sat May 23, 2009 5:11 pm

Dorvan wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:IV doesn't stack with Heroism? Ugh, I've been Doing It Wrong™


Lore is incorrect, IV and Heroism/BL do stack. Heroism/BL and PI do not stack.


Whoops!

(I don't have much mage experience :P)
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Re: [Ret] Change to Avenging Wrath?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Tue May 26, 2009 9:30 am

Majiben wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:Okay, that last quote is exactly what I read. I'll continue to stack AW with Heroism where appropriate, then.
It's worth noting that if your raid isn't using heroism on the pull (or shortly after) you're better off using AW independently of heroism. The reason for this is that 2 AW outside of heroism is a larger dps boost than only one inside Heroism. That is to say if delaying AW at the start to match with heroism so that you miss using another AW at the end of the fight then it's a net dps loss.


Makes sense to me. I always ask when we'll be popping Hero.
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