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Talent Build Debate:

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Talent Build Debate:

Postby Fastous » Sat May 23, 2009 5:09 am

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0tAbuMGsIufdxb + T8 2pc
for +25% Seal and Judgement Damage

-or-

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZy0xA0uMGsIufzxf0x0c
for the increased threat on all abilities. [Side note: We have a Ret paladin only around 70% of the time.]

My avoidance and mitigation is to the point where I can focus on threat and still maintain good survivability; I'm debating the practicality of talenting SotP vs. Crusade/ Conviction.

I have a threat set with 1950 BV unbuffed, but only use that for easy trash and OTing when I'm not able to D/S Ret. I switch trinkets (Valor Medal + Rune of Repulsion with the ones I'm shown on the Armory depending on what is needed, but the spec is for overall Maintanking.)

On average my boss TPS is around 7.5-8.5k TPS and can pull 11-13k TPS on the high-end for a short amount of time.

Edit: Yes there actually is a need to build my threat up, my DPS is getting to the point where my threat needs to be the best it can be. (We have a mage and a boomkin pulling over 10k DPS on fights like General without even trying.)
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Dantriges » Sat May 23, 2009 6:22 am

0/58/13 is better.

I would spec into Judgement of the Just. You don´t always have another tank who applies the debuff.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Gamingdevil » Sat May 23, 2009 10:32 am

Dantriges wrote:0/58/13 is better.

I would spec into Judgement of the Just. You don´t always have another tank who applies the debuff.


I hope you mean 0/53/18. I agree with your point though.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Worldie » Sat May 23, 2009 5:14 pm

Whatever you do, take 1 point off Divinity and 1 off SA and put them in Judgement of the Just.

Not having JotJ is just wrong.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Fastous » Sat May 23, 2009 9:23 pm

Why, I don't tank anything outside of guild raids and we always have a prot warrior there. There's no point in having JotJ if there's already tclap going down.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Poundsy » Sat May 23, 2009 11:27 pm

This is my current build

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZA0xA0uMGsIufdts00b

currently i spend 80% of my raid time in 10 mans. (being a weekend raiding guild for 25's)

boss dependent i sit 5k - 9k tps

i tried the 0/53/18 spec and lost a massive amount of threat.

u'll notice 2/2 spiritual attunement... try doin general vezax's 10's with no mana.. not fun

u might all ask why pursuit of justice... well very handy for the general and yogg.. but most importantly mobile fights, the sooner
i get there the sooner i can pick a mob up or start threat gen or the later i can stand in b4 i need to move. thats my theory anyways. seems to work well and my dps dont complain.

i keep judgment of the just becuase i do alot of solo tanking as well.. ie general, ignis, hodir, mimiron, XT-002, and we are finding yogg easier with 1 tank as well.

I'm finding this build really effective atm esp as a predominate solo tank.

any comments would be great
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby majiben » Sat May 23, 2009 11:30 pm

Fastous wrote:Why, I don't tank anything outside of guild raids and we always have a prot warrior there. There's no point in having JotJ if there's already tclap going down.
You're wasting his rage.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby moduspwnens » Sun May 24, 2009 9:21 am

Majiben wrote:
Fastous wrote:Why, I don't tank anything outside of guild raids and we always have a prot warrior there. There's no point in having JotJ if there's already tclap going down.
You're wasting his rage.

You're also very much hoping he's not tanking something else, dead, or that he doesn't show up.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Panzerdin » Sun May 24, 2009 12:47 pm

And has to spend 3 talent points for the same effect.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Dorvan » Sun May 24, 2009 2:14 pm

...and assuming you're both on the same target all the time.

Not taking JotJ says "I'm not serious about tanking" in any Pally build.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun May 24, 2009 4:09 pm

Dorvan wrote:...and assuming you're both on the same target all the time.

Not taking JotJ says "I'm not serious about tanking" in any Pally build.


I don't think this is necessarily the case. I think it does imply the paladin hates his healers, or doesn't understand how much harder it is to keep him up.

The "some other class is keeping the debuff up" argument might hold water if there was somewhere else those two points were urgently, nay, critically necessary. But there isn't.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Sala » Mon May 25, 2009 5:05 am

Fastous wrote:Why, I don't tank anything outside of guild raids and we always have a prot warrior there. There's no point in having JotJ if there's already tclap going down.


you claim you always have another tank on your target..

Then i wonder why you got that other tank??
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Cylan » Mon May 25, 2009 7:11 am

Not to sound like everyone else, but if you want to be a "true" tank, you have to provide all you can in terms of mitigation to the group/raid/whatever. This includes melee speed reduction. It doesn't matter if druids, DKs, and warriors can provide it as well... They have similar abilities for the same reason we have it, and it is "irresponsible" as a tank to not spec into it.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Nikachelle » Mon May 25, 2009 10:17 am

Relying on someone else to do your own job, when you can provide that same aspect VERY EASILY, is foolish.

And like others have said here... why are you bringing another tank to a raid if you're both tanking the same target? Do they help you with Razorscale's adds? With Ignis's adds? Or Ignis himself? And on XT, are you both tanking the pummelers AND XT at the same time? How about Auriaya? Both of you tanking that Feral defender and Auriaya? Your logic that you have a warrior to do it is not sound. Pick up JotJ.
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Re: Talent Build Debate:

Postby Arizara » Mon May 25, 2009 11:49 pm

Fastous wrote:Why, I don't tank anything outside of guild raids and we always have a prot warrior there. There's no point in having JotJ if there's already tclap going down.


so, on a single target, the warrior should do a lesser move to burn rage and a gcd to allow you to use your talents elsewhere? if you have JotJ, your rotation remains the same and if your hitting the same target he is, then he doesn't have to waste time TC'ing. if you're OT'ing things not near him (which is common the harder content you go to), then you having it becomes important again anyway.

though i think the horse died from the beating a couple of posts ago
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