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[25] Mimiron

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[25] Mimiron

Postby cordelia » Mon May 18, 2009 6:41 am

There was no official 25 Mimi thread. Only multiple [10]'s and a [25] rocket thread.

Firstly, What healer/dps/tank comp do people bring? Last night we went in with 7-8/7 melee/7-8 ranged/2-3 tanks.

2 tanks seems ideal. P1: one tank, taunt and CD switch. P3: spell-reflect/ranged tank for bomb bots, one tank for assault+adds. P4: one for tank, one for head.

Healers: OMG. phase 2. We have deaths during phase 2 if we don't blow heroism. Help required. How many healers do people bring? What kind of healers? How do you stack? Spread out to minimize rapid fire? Or group up to maximize CoH Wild growth?

P3 is easy for us. We put 5 ranged on the head full-time, and he dies right after 2 groundings.

P4. WoW. Where do you start as a raid leader? How do you trouble shoot and improve survivability? Do you assign DPS to head/body/tank? Or do you just let people ad-lib? The latter seemed to work so I didn't assign DPS. I have people dying to bombs, to Lightning Barrage, to Shock Blast. I just don't know where to start. Last night was our first Mimi night. We got P4 to 20%, best attempt. We never saw the third Lightning Barrage, I'm scared to even think what it might be like with overlapping Shockblast.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby inthedrops » Mon May 18, 2009 7:13 am

cordelia wrote:Last night was our first Mimi night. We got P4 to 20%, best attempt.


That's pretty good. Go back you'll do better. Tell the raid no more shock deaths, no more bomb deaths, watch your feet.

If you have a paladin or two it really helps in phase 4. They can bubble and clear mine paths for the melee and/or tank to be able to run out easier during blast. We usually do this on the second set of mines.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Snippy » Mon May 18, 2009 1:24 pm

Let me begin by saying, parts of the fight, mainly phase 4, are still "broken". You can get all sorts of fun at once.

Phase 1 -- We run with a warrior tank and a paladin tank. He eats the first two blasts with the aid of guardian spirit and hand of sac from a healer. I eat the third. There shouldn't be a fourth.. if there is, you're doing something wrong. Melee have a responsiblity to find a way out before the blast early. Its better for them to leave a few seconds early than eat the blast or a mine. If there isn't a way, I usually clear a small path -- letting the healers know! At the end of the phase make sure people clear out of the center circle. We found instant death for anyone in the circle when he popped up. Also if there are bombs in the center, a tank should pop them.

Phase 2 -- There are three "lines" on the floor leading to the boss. We have the healers/ranged stand just outside the circle on these lines. melee fill in between the lines in small groups. Stay stationary unless he does "pew pew lazor beams of death". Then everyone should be behind him (careful to not crowd the hit box - this will be instant death). Watch for rockets. No one should ever die to a rocket.

Phase 3 -- Paladin tank picks up junk bots, and warrior tank picks up the assualt bots (or whatever we decide to do that week). We have a DK or 2 sometimes playing with bomb bots. DPS down the Assualt bots as they come up as quickly as possible, with priority on the head when its down. When the head is done everyone should AOE the junk bots.

Phase 4 -- The tank who last had aggro in Phase 1 will have aggro in Phase 4 to begin. I typically just run up there and pop my shield and DP and stand there picking my nose till the other tank picks it up. You can also cast salv on yourself, though that is probably overkill. BOMBS BOMBS BOMBS!!! A DK or the Paladin tank should make sure there's always a path clear for the MT and if they have time a path for melee. (you may elimiate this step once people get more comfortable with the fight) Don't ever blow up more than two bombs at once. The boss should be held in the middle of the room at all times. This will help keep the bombs more "organized". Lots of fun things, spinning up, blast and rockets. These you need to watch out for and cripes sakes don't die to bombs!! Melee need to plan escapes 3-4 seconds before the blast to navigate thru the mine field. It is possibly one of the most difficult fights to coordinate and tank. It takes alot of practice. If you're tanking as a paladin and can't find a way out when blast happens, be ready with bubble hearth (minus the hearth unless you really want to!).

Tanking assignments: Bottem - your best tank with the bestest of brains and ability to think independently.
Body - Nobody
Head - SL Warlock or unlucky hunter

Everyone should be watching the health on the head, body, and bottem. DBM has a cool little feature to help with this. Just make sure they're going down equally and switch to what you can if you see it getting behind. Melee should watch the body and bottem, ranged should watch the head and the body, and be ready for the bottem if melee fail to navigate mine fields and die!

Phase 4 really isn't a phase that you can make "assignments" on. This fight is a think on your toes and use your judgement. The only things you can control are calling out rockets, shock blasts, spinning up, pew pew lazors of death, and cussing out the dps warrior who died again!

Oh and last note about starting the fight... dps warriors charging in, will most likely get them killed unless they're lucky. It is very amusing to watch it happen, so you can share this or not. :)



p.s. Sorry for walls of text... mods please fix if you'd like... I just didn't know where to break! :)
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon May 18, 2009 3:05 pm

We have one tank (me) and one "ranged" tank (a warlock) for P3.

7 healers is a nice crutch to have.

P1: Bubble Wall, Pain Suppression, then a ret paladin pops DG/HoSacr for 3rd.

P2: ranged spreads out in a half circle, 1 person deep. Spreading out horizontally is much more important than stacking "deep" -- which does nothing to minimize damage. One person is assigned to call rockets, and yells as soon as he sees the rocket graphic blip.

P3: ranged tank picks up the head, I do bots and adds. A DK pulls out bomb bots and a few ranged DPS blow it up.

P4: fun times. It takes practice. We got Mim on the 2nd night of attempts, when we could get through P1-3 consistently with no deaths.

- The Tank will have to tiptoe backwards so s/he can actually see their own model, and if they're being targeted for rockets.
- Raid must go back to half-circle formation.
- Melee has to be ready to run out -- and should have a relatively bomb-free path picked out before they need to run.
- During Eyebeam the tank will have to be very careful, as it's a giant pain in the ass to rotate and stay out of the model (which will mean pretty quick death). A lot of guilds burn many CDs so their tank doesn't have to move at all. I've found that wide-circle-strafing is about the best you can do.
- We have ranged DPS head, melee DPS body; at 10% they switch to middle. When middle is 20%ish we BL and finish it off.

People need to pay attention and know what to do, all the time. It'll take the healers a few times to figure out how to heal this fight -- it's trickier for some classes than others.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Seloei » Fri May 22, 2009 2:43 am

Besides not letting anyone die from mines / shock blast, phase1 is 'mastered'
You could try spreading out to the max, with using the full room in phase2 if you are having problem with people dieing. It is a quite intense healing challenge.

Phase3, if you don't want to waste dps have the one who is tanking the head make a macro (if your using a proper tank)
/tar bomb /cast taunt
the bombs explode for about 10k each, it's easily healable and you don't need extra dps on it, unless your doing the achievement.

phase4 is a combination of all the previous phases. The only way to make it work is to try it multiple times. If you hit the "soft enrage" of 3 laser barrages, you will start getting combos quite often. (barrage+shock)

In phase4, have the melee dps go to town on the base, with splash damage on the chest, ranged take the head to 10%, after the head take the chest to 10%. Melee should be about there now, due to them having to run out often. Get all the parts to 10%, then 5%, then burn them.

We use 6 healers, 3 tanks (pala,war,druid) and i think 6-7 melee dps, rest are casters
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby PsiVen » Fri May 22, 2009 5:43 am

7 healers is very helpful for P2. 6 will get dicey, especially if you're Paladin heavy. To minimize raid damage you'll want to organize a radial spread around the room, at a distance good enough for rocket strikes to be easily visible.

I cannot really imagine what you are doing with 3 tanks on Mimiron. After the changes to the length of P3, it is definitely a one-tank fight. Having a second around is decent insurance in case he gets killed, but three is just wasting DPS. A dpsing DK or anyone with decent HP can play catcher with the bombs, while the MT picks up every robot.

Unless you're... using a warrior to tank the head with spell reflect? I guess that would work. Our head "tank" is just a ranged DPS holding aggro above the others.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Snippy » Fri May 22, 2009 6:21 am

I need to heavily disagree with the previous poster on only having one tank.

There's no excuse NOT to have a second tank. Even if you do get P1 down to two shock blasts, it would make for a hellish phase 3. Honestly, there's just alot to pick up. And with having to build quick aggro on Assualt bots, you won't be lucky enough to be able to chase down junk bots.

My guild actually started with three tanks for this fight. We've parred it down to two, with our DKs (we run with 2-3) playing with the bomb bots.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Seloei » Fri May 22, 2009 8:47 am

Once you reach phase4, theres no point in having more than one tank. Without relying on outside cooldowns for plasma blasts on p1, you really don't need more than one tank even in 25man, 2 just makes it easier.
Our druid just goes into dps mode after phase1 and helps pick up adds in phase3. The warrior spellreflect tanks the head but otherwise doesn't do much the rest of the fight.
Coordination is not one of our "strongest" points, so we got round to tank deaths in p1 by using 3 tanks, and once they have something set in their mind that works, they will keep on doing it on and on and on and on and on since the raidleader doesn't want to test anything new.

I also forgot to mention, that you are using ranged dps on the head all the time, why not burn down the assault bots faster so he will be stunned and takes 50% more damage? Makes p3 shorter. Also, a decent hunter can ranged tank the assault bots like on vashj, as it was meant to be done at the start, before the nerfbat wacked ulduar silly.

Oh, and the "stages" keep their agro table at the start of p4, so if your assigned to tank the base in p4. Taunt it just as it reaches 1 health to insure it won't go running away at the start of p4. Same goes for the head.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri May 22, 2009 10:42 am

Snippy wrote:I need to heavily disagree with the previous poster on only having one tank.

There's no excuse NOT to have a second tank. Even if you do get P1 down to two shock blasts, it would make for a hellish phase 3. Honestly, there's just alot to pick up. And with having to build quick aggro on Assualt bots, you won't be lucky enough to be able to chase down junk bots.


We've never had more than one tank on this fight, and we go through three plasma blasts. Lately we've been going to P2 before the 3rd shock blast, but sometimes DPS is a bit slow. why would you need a second tank for this?

What's so difficult about single tanking P3? Well, two-tanking if you count the ranged person soaking the head. I find P3 calm and relaxing compared to, say, S3D. With clever raid positioning and proper CD management, add control is simple.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Snippy » Fri May 22, 2009 11:50 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Snippy wrote:I need to heavily disagree with the previous poster on only having one tank.

There's no excuse NOT to have a second tank. Even if you do get P1 down to two shock blasts, it would make for a hellish phase 3. Honestly, there's just alot to pick up. And with having to build quick aggro on Assualt bots, you won't be lucky enough to be able to chase down junk bots.


We've never had more than one tank on this fight, and we go through three plasma blasts. Lately we've been going to P2 before the 3rd shock blast, but sometimes DPS is a bit slow. why would you need a second tank for this?

What's so difficult about single tanking P3? Well, two-tanking if you count the ranged person soaking the head. I find P3 calm and relaxing compared to, say, S3D. With clever raid positioning and proper CD management, add control is simple.


Why wouldn't y ou need 2 tanks??

This fight is wildly unpredictable. I died to a shock blast b/c an addon flipped out in P4 when he cast the first shock blast. We've had weird things happen like rockets in the middle of the boss that blow up the tank. And there was one, where he was alive and then he wasn't... so weird.

Secondly, phase 3. The strat used by my guild is to dps down the Assualt bots. If you're busying picking up junk bots, there's little time to work your threat up on the assualt bot. So either dps will go to slow and you'll end up with a train of Assualt bots on you or they'll go to fast and pull agro. It really just doesn't make sense why you wouldn't consider a second tank. At the current guild level of the majority of players, its not a good idea to one tank it.

Also, while many people are still new to the fight, its viable for the second tank to clear mine path ways for people if they seem to be locked in. Maybe in a few months we'll be one tanking it... but not right now.

And tell me the benifit of having one tank take a crap ton of damage and possibly be lost in the fight due to the wild nature of the fight with no one to pick it up? Me in dps gear?? LOL Not even hit capped in my dps gear. I better serve as backup and an extra tank to pick up adds. I don't see any problem with this. And you're average guild running this, will find it far less stressful and far easier to have that second tank there.

There's no need to proclaim a strat that works well only if you're UBER OMG I PLAY 7 DAYS A WEEK 6-8 HOURS A DAY IN MY MOM'S BASEMENT. The average player base will find two tanks a better solution to the fight. (and yah i went there...)
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Faro » Fri May 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Snippy wrote:And tell me the benifit of having one tank take a crap ton of damage and possibly be lost in the fight due to the wild nature of the fight with no one to pick it up? Me in dps gear?? LOL Not even hit capped in my dps gear. I better serve as backup and an extra tank to pick up adds. I don't see any problem with this. And you're average guild running this, will find it far less stressful and far easier to have that second tank there.

There's no need to proclaim a strat that works well only if you're UBER OMG I PLAY 7 DAYS A WEEK 6-8 HOURS A DAY IN MY MOM'S BASEMENT. The average player base will find two tanks a better solution to the fight. (and yah i went there...)


Being able to not get lost in a room that's ~60 yards in diameter doesn't mean you play from your mom's basement. My first two kills involved me solo tanking this and dps never pulled threat on an assault bot. The reason for not bringing two tanks could be something like they don't have one available or the age old "DPS is the best HPS because dead mobs don't do damage."

If you're trying to solo tank this then just make sure your raid is stacked in one corner of the room with your healers and ranged dps on the wall. Consecrate picks up any junk bots, and anything missed should just be called out and you use righteous defense (no directional quality and the junk bots don't hit for enough to care about them attacking.)

If your tank is getting overrun by assault bots then that's probably because you have....two of them. That or you're a ranged stacked raid, in which case it's the raid leader's responsibility to assign proper dps. If you're having trouble seeing rockets under you in p4 (happened to the other 10m group) then just move every time there's a rocket going out or baby spice the flame leviathan component.

A lot of tanks I know have trouble avoiding spinning up in p4. The way I do it is I inch very very close to the flame leviathan model and then strafe a little bit. Rinse and repeat, and it takes a little bit of repositioning after every shock blast but really what else are you doing other than a 969.

@the guy who went there. There is no problem with running this fight with two tanks. If that's what your guild needs to do because dps is slow or your tanks die for no reason then do it. That being said, it is more efficient to run one tank if he can handle it. Just because your dps gear is subpar doesn't mean your raid spot is better used with you in prot gear, it means your raid spot is better off with a dps or healer.

cordelia wrote:P4. WoW. Where do you start as a raid leader? How do you trouble shoot and improve survivability? Do you assign DPS to head/body/tank? Or do you just let people ad-lib? The latter seemed to work so I didn't assign DPS. I have people dying to bombs, to Lightning Barrage, to Shock Blast.


I'm a raid leader myself and trust me I know exactly how you feel. This is one of those fights where either people get it or you need to just sit on the side and watch to see what's going wrong. We assigned ranged to middle and melee to bottom, then when they're both at 20 we had ranged switch to top and burn it. Mid takes enough cleave so that by the time top and bottom are dead (you need to coordinate them dieing at the same time) you can have all dps converge and nuke it. If ad-libbing works then grats, my dps are too full of themselves to coordinate without hand holding.

Dieing to a bomb by melee is sometimes acceptable (you get caught in a bad shock blast/spin up combo and nailed) but I haven't seen him doing both recently so barring that case there's no reason. Dieing to Lightning Barrage is completely unacceptable, especially by melee. I've had cases where people are humping the model to the point where they get hit, you just need to remind your melee that max range is ALWAYS what they should be doing on his hit box. We had one melee on the center and he would call out spinning up (with an o'clock direction) and rockets to make sure people didn't tunnel vision.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Belloc » Fri May 22, 2009 3:09 pm

I know that this fight can be done with 1 tank, but it just feels so much more safe with 2.

Take phase 1, for instance. A solo tank can shield wall the first plasma blast, but the rest will require external cooldowns. I'm talking pain suppression and paladins using hand of sacrifice. When we use two tanks, however, that's two shield walls. Since both of our tanks are paladins, that's also two hands of sacrifice that can be used without having to bubble (which becomes important in phase 2).

So, phase 2. Your rets/holys had to HoS you while bubbled, which means they cannot use divine sacrifice now. My group, however, has at least 3 paladins that can use a bubble/divine sacrifice rotation during this phase.

Phase 3, whatever. I sit off to the side taunting bomb bots and picking up the magnetic cores. Everything else is solo-tanked. Ranged dpses the assault bots until the head comes down.

Phase 4... so, this is the phase where you are most likely to lose a tank for whatever reason. Having a backup is always a good idea. Also, having a second tank allows you to taunt the base during a bad laser barrage, which prevents the other tank's movement from moving the boss.


Yes, this fight can be solo tanked. We do it on 10-man every time. I'd love to retdps the boss on 25-man, but it's just so much more safe and reliable to have two tanks. Besides, you just got done doing Thorim, right? You had at least two tanks there...
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Seloei » Fri May 22, 2009 11:39 pm

This is 25man we are talking about at the moment right?
Phase3 in 25man, don't you have a single good ranged dps who can keep agro on the assault bots? The only job the tanks have in p3 is to pickup junk bots, which deserve their name (3k hit on cloth, OUCH!) since theres almost no aoe damage going around on normal mode.
The second or third tank spot can be a tank, but a ranged tank for the head or the assault bots. But it also gives you a dps boost on the other parts of the fight where they aren't tanking. The only hard part will be surviving the plasmablasts with external cooldowns and coordinating those.

The major reason why most guilds bring more than 1 tank on the fight, is since they have more than one tank. Would love to cut down on the amount of tanks, because we only have one full time tank left, the others went emo and quit when ulduar launched ("It's too hard QQ, This fight is impossible QQ"). We raided a lot on the first week before it was nerfed to hell.

Bringing 2 tanks, as was said before, is a good idea if you are afraid he might die due to a shockblast (too slow at moving) or a rocket strike (tunnelvision on bars).

edit: Oh, in phase4 you can slack a lot on the threat if you were the last to tank in phase1 since you have a significant threat lead at the start, so you can just keep hitting holy shield, hammer, shield etc when you feel like it, your not bogged down 100% into the 969 to keep enough threat to not threat cap the melee dps.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Belloc » Fri May 22, 2009 11:49 pm

Why would you have ranged tank the assault bots? They are weak. Having them tanked in a stationary position means that melee and ranged can go all out without having to deal with movement. Any tank should be able to hold the assault bots and the trash bots... it's easy.

I know that you used to have to ranged tank/kite them, but not anymore. That's a total waste of time.
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Re: [25] Mimiron

Postby Seloei » Sat May 23, 2009 3:13 am

Last time i tried, they hit me for 45k melee swings so didn't try again. On 10man they just tank them as usual but on 25man our hunter kites them.
Honestly, with chains of ice, hamstring etc, theres no chance melee will fall behind on them. The only thing is they have to wait for 5s while he targets it to build some threat, but MM threat is huge.

How hard do they hit now then?
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