[10/25] Yogg Saron

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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Seloei » Tue May 12, 2009 10:25 am

The adds in p3, hit for 30k at start with all 4 keepers up on me and in the end, just for 2k each.
The biggest problem i had, was GCD when an add spawned right smack in the middle of the raid. Usually a sotr + consecrate was enough to keep threat on the old ones, but we had 2 tanks + kitty dpsing who could pop into bear in the end.

Frankly, i don't want to even imagine how hard the real hardmode for this fight is. However, once you know what to do in p1/2 and got the dps for it, this is a walk in the park.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Dobbelsteen » Tue May 12, 2009 3:45 pm

Yea, GCD was also the main reason people died, hate it... :p
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Treck » Wed May 13, 2009 1:40 am

The adds spawn once every 10th sec. (25)
We use 2 tanks to take turns of the adds. This means that i have to pick an add up every 20th sec.
When they spawn you got about 1-2 sec after it spawned before its activated, but you can still hurt it.
This means that you should ALWAYS have taunt off CD when anotherone comes, you can also target the add and spamm aoetaunt, and youll grabb the add once it starts going for someone.
I try to save exorsism for picking up adds, so that I always do hand of reckoning + Exorsism on every add, throwing the shield takes time, and if your allrdy slow on seeing the spawned add it might land to late.
The "hard" part in this phase is to have your back towards the boss, and the add infront of you, imo the best is if the adds spawn on the raid. Its risky, but if the adds spawn on the other side of the boss i try to let it run past me and then taunt right before it reaches the raid.
However if you start P3 with +70 sanity you can move around a bit with the adds so you got your back to the boss and add infront of you it wont kill you taking a tick or 2 from his gazze. Ive done P3s both 10man and 25man without loosing any sanity at all, was at 23 or so once when it started, annoying red thingy covering the screen when your low but still shouldnt loose any sanity.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Tyaera » Wed May 13, 2009 7:05 am

the door strat works fine for both 10 and 25, but it requires two tanks on 10man and three on 25...a better strat for 10man, to allow your other tank to DPS, is to tank them next to Sara, and just have everyone being smart about clouds.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby PsiVen » Thu May 14, 2009 2:11 am

Yeah, we generally pull every mob to the middle before DPS even has a chance to start on it. Works very well for DPS uptime and allows the ranged to spread if they have to avoid clouds quickly.

For hard modes: It's all about DPS and execution. Losing Mimiron basically requires that you keep ahead of crushers and corruptors, killing them before the next set spawns. Losing Freya requires that you burn the brain in two phases or at least somehow rotate brain portals. Losing Hodir requires that people don't screw up and get killed. Losing Thorim is the only seriously different one, as it causes phase 3 to change completely.

For the 10-man, even with 0 keepers the DPS should be doable for a balanced U25 geared raid executing well. But the DPS needed to burn the brain in two phases and then keep piles of adds under control... Well, that's just a little nuts, and it's why I think this fight is going to be changed a bit.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Snippy » Thu May 14, 2009 6:25 am

Hand of Protection wiping raid.

So ... we typically run with 3 - 4 paladins (25 man). We all have been popping Hand of Protection as the fight starts. However, with the ease of getting going again after a wipe, Hand of Proection comes up mid fight. Twice now I've had 1-2 seconds left on cooldown and I've been Mind Controled and then I end up casting it on the mob I'm kiting to the center. Its a raid wipe at that point.

Any suggestions on handling this??
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby semp » Thu May 14, 2009 6:33 am

[25] What is the typical raid setup you guys have found successful? We are struggling to clear P2 and have been banging our heads into a wall on yogg for a good 4-5 nights now. What is your typical melee setup, and who all do you send into the portals to dps the brain?
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Ewige » Thu May 14, 2009 6:51 am

Hand of Protection wiping raid.


Faster dispells and more totems to get out of MC. Maybe even a timely dispell/purge of the BoP could prevent a wipe. This is a fight where everybody has to be on the ball and other people have to be prepared for stuff like this. If you've been marking the adds then call for Mass Dispell or purge on a mark. Even with all that sometimes a wipe's a wipe and all you can do is find a DI target before you die :^)

Nothing more to be done, really, and it sounds like you're already doing all you can to prevent early BoPs.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby Funtodin » Fri May 15, 2009 6:07 am

To those who have killed him, how do you guys handle phase 2?

For the upstairs group, have you tried just straight up burning the crushers non-stop with the 20% dmg debuff up so you don't lose dps time?

For the portal squad, do you have it split into 2x5 groups and separate to have better dps time on each individual target? If so, you need 2 healers, right?
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby inthedrops » Fri May 15, 2009 7:16 am

Funtodin wrote:To those who have killed him, how do you guys handle phase 2?

For the upstairs group, have you tried just straight up burning the crushers non-stop with the 20% dmg debuff up so you don't lose dps time?

For the portal squad, do you have it split into 2x5 groups and separate to have better dps time on each individual target? If so, you need 2 healers, right?


For phase 2, our experience told us that is was worth it to stop dps on the crushers to let the stacks fall. But the DPS actually has to do a good job of it and actually stop DPS. If they take 15 seconds for everyone to stop then you just screwed the strategy over. Everyone needs to stop at the same time. If you do this right, it's definitely worth removing that 20% debuff. Especially in 25 man.

The the portal squad, each of the three rooms is a little different, but yes, they have a specific plan in each room for who goes where. Part of the problem is that for a few of them the adds don't even spawn for a good 5 to 10 seconds so those people go and stand in front of specific adds until they spawn :) Long story short, it's definitely worth having a plan and not just randomly killing things in the portal.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby baleogthefierce » Fri May 15, 2009 11:40 am

inthedrops wrote:
Funtodin wrote:To those who have killed him, how do you guys handle phase 2?

For the upstairs group, have you tried just straight up burning the crushers non-stop with the 20% dmg debuff up so you don't lose dps time?

For the portal squad, do you have it split into 2x5 groups and separate to have better dps time on each individual target? If so, you need 2 healers, right?


For phase 2, our experience told us that is was worth it to stop dps on the crushers to let the stacks fall. But the DPS actually has to do a good job of it and actually stop DPS. If they take 15 seconds for everyone to stop then you just screwed the strategy over. Everyone needs to stop at the same time. If you do this right, it's definitely worth removing that 20% debuff. Especially in 25 man.

The the portal squad, each of the three rooms is a little different, but yes, they have a specific plan in each room for who goes where. Part of the problem is that for a few of them the adds don't even spawn for a good 5 to 10 seconds so those people go and stand in front of specific adds until they spawn :) Long story short, it's definitely worth having a plan and not just randomly killing things in the portal.


We find that it's easier to focus on the corrupter tentacles until the brain stun goes out, then jump on the crushers since the DPS can burn them for a good ~30 seconds uninterrupted at that point.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby PsiVen » Fri May 15, 2009 1:46 pm

Funtodin: Read back a page; you should never have to deal with the 20% debuff being up for more than a split second, and you should never have to stop DPS.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby inthedrops » Fri May 15, 2009 2:02 pm

PsiVen wrote:Funtodin: Read back a page; you should never have to deal with the 20% debuff being up for more than a split second, and you should never have to stop DPS.


I have not figured out how to consistently not get hit going in and out. Whatever it is you do I cannot duplicate. In fact, it sometimes feels like it's not hitting the mob that makes it clear, but that it's the mob being able to attempt to hit you that makes it clear. I haven' had the luxury of testing it out.

I do not feel safe getting anywhere near the guy with 99 stacks. What's the secret? I don't have the liberty to experiment.

You know what? Honestly, It's clear people are doing this successfully. I'm just going to do it next time and see what happens. Maybe I'm just not patient enough. I recall a few times running in and out without ever stopped and channeling wasn't stopped. I guess I just wasn't in close enough to hit him. But that's what made me be much more deliberate about it and standing there an extra 0.5 second.
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby d503 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:18 pm

inthedrops wrote:
PsiVen wrote:Funtodin: Read back a page; you should never have to deal with the 20% debuff being up for more than a split second, and you should never have to stop DPS.


I have not figured out how to consistently not get hit going in and out. Whatever it is you do I cannot duplicate. In fact, it sometimes feels like it's not hitting the mob that makes it clear, but that it's the mob being able to attempt to hit you that makes it clear. I haven' had the luxury of testing it out.

I do not feel safe getting anywhere near the guy with 99 stacks. What's the secret? I don't have the liberty to experiment.

You know what? Honestly, It's clear people are doing this successfully. I'm just going to do it next time and see what happens. Maybe I'm just not patient enough. I recall a few times running in and out without ever stopped and channeling wasn't stopped. I guess I just wasn't in close enough to hit him. But that's what made me be much more deliberate about it and standing there an extra 0.5 second.


Remember too that there's a cast time to start the channeling. Depending on how nice Mimiron is feeling, that could be 1.5s to 6s. At that point, the channel starts...sometimes you have to stay in for longer than you think to get the hit off. As mentioned earlier, AOE damage does not cause the stacks to tick up, so have all ranged switch to AOE while waiting for the debuff to come off...you surely lose less DPS time that way.

Also, remember, if you were 'exploiting' by using Judgement to reset the debuff, that's fixed now.

Lastly, we usually have our warrior tank on the Crusher that's being dps'd, because he can charge in and intervene out pretty quickly, and has less opportunity to get gibbed. I usually pick up an additional Crusher if we're unlucky and two are spawned at once.

We downed him on 5/13 and our makeup was:

2 Tanks (warrior, paladin, we also had a feral go bear form to help with adds in p1)
9 Melee DPS (all in the hole in p2)
10 Ranged DPS (all upstairs in p2)
4 Healers (Druid in the hole in p2)
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Re: [10/25] Yogg Saron

Postby inthedrops » Fri May 15, 2009 3:54 pm

I believe what Psiven is saying, and he's saying you can do it without ever getting hit. So I'll be making a serious effort to "joust" next time instead of running in, stopping for 1/4 second to ensure I am in long enough to hit him, and then running back out.
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