Remove Advertisements

[10] Hodir

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Jasari » Mon May 11, 2009 11:37 am

It might be overkill, but for progression I found it better to take very little damage during Frozen Blows so that healers could focus more on keeping the raid alive. When we start going for the achievement, I'll definitely drop down to probably 1-2 pieces so that I can hold better threat though.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby kywirelessguy » Mon May 11, 2009 11:59 am

I definitely agree with that sentiment, and if you are duo-tanking it, then I think that line of reasoning is correct. If you are single tanking Hodir then you have to worry about his non-frozen blow melee damage. Gimping yourself for p1 to make yourself better in p2 isn't really helping you or your healers. He was hitting me very hard in 25's during the non-frozen blows phases. Also I think someone already mentioned in this thread, if you avoid the initial frozen blow melee hit, the frozen blow affect then isn't applied (iirc, big IIRC). So more avoidance is actually beneficial in frozen blows phase too. Of course this takes us further into the RNG avoidance argument. I just think there is a fine line there were gimping your avoidance for more FrR may actually end up worse than just running with less FrR. Now where that line is I can't begin to guess, I also don't know how blocking the frozen blow melee hit affects the frost damage (if at all).


Pure conjecture, but this is fun to think about. Really the fight is so easy its not much of a factor but I'm learning alot more about frost resist anyway ;)
Image
kywirelessguy
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:55 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Vanifae » Mon May 11, 2009 2:12 pm

I clear it every week using a single tank, we don't fail from tank death, we fail from people not moving out of things and getting crushed to death.

I could see if your guild/raid has weak healing or you need to lessen all the damage you can but a competent tank in Frost Resistance and a competent raid can clear this with no problems.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Aubade » Mon May 11, 2009 2:14 pm

Vanifae wrote:I clear it every week using a single tank, we don't fail from tank death, we fail from people not moving out of things and getting crushed to death.

I could see if your guild/raid has weak healing or you need to lessen all the damage you can but a competent tank in Frost Resistance and a competent raid can clear this with no problems.



This. 2 peices, you don't need 3 or 4 and you don't need to be capped, i use 2 pieces with no gems or enchants. Just 2 pieces and an Aura. as well as a drood buff.
Image
- Awbade Level 85 Human Paladin - <Tsunami> Frostmourne - Retired.
Deliriously wrote:I prefer the, "Lonely Hand Approach" (trademark pending)
User avatar
Aubade
Moderator
 
Posts: 4877
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:51 am
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby kywirelessguy » Mon May 11, 2009 2:45 pm

Vanifae wrote:I clear it every week using a single tank, we don't fail from tank death, we fail from people not moving out of things and getting crushed to death.

I could see if your guild/raid has weak healing or you need to lessen all the damage you can but a competent tank in Frost Resistance and a competent raid can clear this with no problems.


I don't think anyone was saying you shouldn't do it with 1 tank, the question I'm asking is how much frost resist is ideal? My point was if you are using 2 tanks the frost resist tank could stack FrR till their eyes bleed, but single tanking there is a sweet spot where you are reducing frost damage as much as possible and still reducing his regular 15-20k melee as much as possible. Where is the sweet spot?

I realize its not very important as the fight is really easy, and the gear you have outside your frost set is an important variable, but I was thinking about it anyway.
Image
kywirelessguy
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:55 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby neokai » Mon May 11, 2009 3:08 pm

kywirelessguy wrote:I don't think anyone was saying you shouldn't do it with 1 tank, the question I'm asking is how much frost resist is ideal? My point was if you are using 2 tanks the frost resist tank could stack FrR till their eyes bleed, but single tanking there is a sweet spot where you are reducing frost damage as much as possible and still reducing his regular 15-20k melee as much as possible. Where is the sweet spot?

I realize its not very important as the fight is really easy, and the gear you have outside your frost set is an important variable, but I was thinking about it anyway.


TL;DR section:
To quote the elitistjerks thread, here's the table of resistance values

Resistance Minimum Possible Resist
128 10%
219 20%
340 30%
510 40%
765 50%

You would want to aim for 340 or 510 frost resist (with aura counted). Aura mastery will boost your resistance to the next threshold, i.e. 340 will cross over into the 510 threshold, while 510 will almost cross into 765.

On hard mode achievements, 340 is prob the sweet spot if you are confident of your threat, 219 otherwise (1pc+ aura).


Slightly longer explantion:
The theoretical equation put forth is P(x) = 0.5 - 2.5*|x - R/(C+R)|
P(x) is the probability of you getting x% resist.
Where R = Your resistance as shown in the character tab
Where C = a constant value (510 for lvl 83 boss character)
At 340 FR, you have 25% chance of getting the 30% resist, 50% chance of getting 40% resist, and 25% chance of getting 50% resist.
At 510 FR, you have 25% chance of getting the 40% resist, 50% chance of getting 50% resist , and 25% chance of getting 60% resist.
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.
My warcraftpets profile here

Image
neokai
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:56 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Borten » Tue May 12, 2009 1:19 am

Well 10-man i was facing no problems at all MT'ing it without frost gear, 3 healers 1 tank 6 dps and we kill him in a few minutes.
Image
Borten
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:14 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Epimer » Tue May 12, 2009 8:29 am

We failed 5 or 6 times at this the other night. Wasn't due to stupid deaths (after the first 3 or so attempts), or tank death, it was hitting the enrage timer :shock: Our DPS wasn't top notch, but am I correct in assuming that this suggests that the NPC buffs weren't being maximised? I'll have to try the Grobbulus-style kite suggested to help out melee, and leave ranged and healers in the haste buff.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Vanifae » Tue May 12, 2009 9:49 am

Epimer wrote:We failed 5 or 6 times at this the other night. Wasn't due to stupid deaths (after the first 3 or so attempts), or tank death, it was hitting the enrage timer :shock: Our DPS wasn't top notch, but am I correct in assuming that this suggests that the NPC buffs weren't being maximised? I'll have to try the Grobbulus-style kite suggested to help out melee, and leave ranged and healers in the haste buff.

Yeah you need to maximize the buffs if that is the case, you really don't have to kite to too far. Do you have Bloodlust/Heroism available at the start? Best to use at the start of the encounter after all the NPC's are freed.
This is why I'm a humorless feminist. Because rape jokes killed my sense of humor.
Minnerva wrote:if you act like a jerk then we push you away unless when born the girl got slapped around by her father.
User avatar
Vanifae
 
Posts: 7123
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:36 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Epimer » Tue May 12, 2009 11:28 am

We normally would have Heroism available, but our resident enhancement shaman wasn't available for that raid night. Still, we were hitting the enrage timer at a good 20% of Hodir's health, so it's not something that the 40s uber-buff is going to fix on its own :) Thanks for the suggestions.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Zoltar » Tue May 12, 2009 8:38 pm

We do it the same way on both 10 man and 25 man. We use one tank in 3 pieces of FR gear but uncrittable and the rest of the raid wearing 2 pieces. We make it number one priority after the flash freeze to break the NPCs out. All DPS focus on breaking the NPCs out before returning to Hodir.
I am sure it has been mentioned but turning on 'projected textures' in video options makes a big difference for people who have trouble standing not standing in the bad things.
.
.
.
User avatar
Zoltar
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: Hodir 10 Man

Postby Torquemada » Thu May 14, 2009 11:45 am

Panzerdin wrote:If he can tank his normal sections in FrR gear go for it. Two tanks is the most stable, which is what this fight is about.


I tanked Hodir last night on 25 man with 485 Frost Resist from all the crafted gear including the ring. I also swapped out for the EoV badge ring(It has high defense rating), my defense trinket, and my shield(Hero's Surrender is LOW) and stayed above 540 defense. Frozen blows were not bad so long as the healers weren't stressed out with raid damage. I think if anything it's more effective to have an extra DPS for the enrage timer on 10 man.

However, something was wrong and our best attempts were about 6-7% before the enrage timer. We tried only freeing the mages, freeing all the adds, and neither one made much difference. I kited the boss in such a fashion that the melee were always able to stand in a starlight as well.

The only other thing I can think of is to make sure they're still DPSing during as Flash Freeze casts start, only moving to the snow at the last minute and then continuing with DPS for as long as possible. I have a feeling a bunch of them were wasting time not hitting him and watching for the snow even though it was being called out.

Also, our raid DPS is generally all over 3k on this fight even with the movement. Our best shot we had only 1 down and it was at about 30% and we still couldn't pull it out.

Any ideas how we can tweak up the DPS and maybe turn it up to eleven?
User avatar
Torquemada
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Virginia

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Jasari » Thu May 14, 2009 11:52 am

I'm really not sure how you're having problems with the enrage timer as long as people aren't dying. With one tank, 3 healers, and 6 DPS (one of which is the other tank as his dual spec so slightly undergeared). We downed it in a little over 6 minutes on our progression kill even with 3 of the DPS dying at various times throughout the fight.

We have our melee run around and break out all the adds after each flash freeze, have casters stand in the lighty things and I always pull him to the lighty things so that melee can stand in them too. It sounds like you're doing that too, as long as your DPS aren't incredibly undergeared, you should be killing him well ahead of the enrage.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Torquemada » Thu May 14, 2009 12:32 pm

We're hitting the enrage timer on the heroic version of Hodir. Generally between 7-20%.
User avatar
Torquemada
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Virginia

Re: [10] Hodir

Postby Belloc » Thu May 14, 2009 1:06 pm

If your raiders are only putting out 3k dps, they are majorly failing in some way.

Every single DPS needs to break the ice blocks every time.

Here are some rules that you should give your DPS:

Melee: Stack on a marked melee (give them a star, or something). That melee should be in a light beam, positioned behind the boss. If an icicle circle appears under them, strafe out of it and move back in once it has fallen. Be constantly jumping. The key for melee is to not be all spread out behind the boss, which will cause multiple icicle aoes, leaving the melee no room. Stack up perfectly and move out and back in.

Ranged: Stack on a marked ranged (give them a circle or something). That ranged should be positioned near the toasty fire, inside of a beam of light. If an icicle circle spawns under them, everyone moves out, casts a spell or two, and moves back in. Again, be stacked perfectly, not spread out in the area. The fire will allow the ranged to be constantly casting, which should guarantee 6-7k+ dps for anyone geared enough to be in Ulduar. Skilled players will be doing 8k+.

Tank: Make sure there is always a beam behind the boss, and in melee range.


Your raiders are probably moving constantly and not doing any reliable dps. The bare minimum dps that everyone should be putting out on this fight is 4k. One of our mages does close to 10k. I do nearly 5k in my ret set (and that's with running all over the damned place while leading the raid).
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

PreviousNext

Return to T8: Ulduar / Emalon

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest