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[DK] The DK Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Dantriges » Thu May 14, 2009 7:42 am

Well it seems, I am sorely lacking in the threat department.

Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... langEffekt

I am not sure if I have a talentspec mistake, something with the equipment or simple rotation failure.

I am using the Howling Blast Glyph, open up with it, Obliterate, Blodd Strieks for death runes, Obliterate, FrostStrike/Runestrike as RP dump.

I suspect that´s either one of the following:
Not using the second disease
Rotation mistake, either systematic or am pushing something wrong.
Missing hit.
Talent mistake.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu May 14, 2009 9:13 am

Macro Rune Strike to everything so you can pretty much forget about it. IT-PS will generally beat HB for single target boss fights, the only reason I haven't swapped back to the Icy Touch glyph in my tank build is the sheer level of OP that it is in AoE situations.

Spec's not bad, but 3/5 Bladed Armor will likely beat Subversion for threat. Glyphs are fine.

You were very vague, so that's about the best I can help, sorry. :( Give us a parse of something to see what you're actually doing and how bad your threat actually is. Many specs can and will push your threat to the limit these days. I always freak out at our Arcane mage, since he likes to invis at the last possible second. >_>
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu May 14, 2009 9:49 am

You're also using an 18-stamina glove enchant. If threat is a concern, you're going to get more out of the 2% threat / parry rating enchant. Bladed armor is a better payoff than subversion if you're in frost presence, and Deathchill has very little value in throughput threat generation. Pulling at least one point into Epidemic will allow you to use a steady two-rune-cycle rotation, which should help as well. So subversion -> bladed armor, deathchill -> epidemic, and that should get you a bit more passive threat and the ability to run a more steady rotation:

IT->PS->Oblit->BS->BS->__
__->Oblit->Oblit->__->Oblit->__

The underscores are openings to fire frost strike (or howling blast on Rime procs), assuming RS hasn't consumed too much already. If you get a chance to pull in the Sigil of the Vengeful Heart, it is superior for frost in my opinion.

-Splug
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu May 14, 2009 9:53 am

Vengeful Heart is fucking sexy. Like, I would sell my raid leaders soul for it sexy. Pity it'll go to the shitty 'DPS' dk before me and Ryukii can roll for it. :<
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu May 14, 2009 10:04 am

Unfortunately I've found it mediocre for tanking as blood or unholy. Between rune strikes sucking up a large portion of RP and blood's heavy demand on GCD's, I'm fairly confident Awareness is better for at least blood, and comparable for unholy. So until I run into a fight that significantly favors frost again, it looks like it sits in my bags. It is fun running around BG's dropping five-digit bombs on people with no resilience though...

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu May 14, 2009 10:06 am

Do fights later on significantly disadvantage Frost tanking? Or is it more of a preference thing. I'll be exceptionally sad if I have to spec sighBlood to be taken seriously once we start to properly kill the Watchers onwards.

Also, it's worth noting just how strong Frost Strike is as an RP dump. It's not quite a Rune Strike, but it's pretty close. I'd like to see a Death Coil crit for 7000 in tanking gear.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Splug » Thu May 14, 2009 10:33 am

Levantine wrote:Do fights later on significantly disadvantage Frost tanking? Or is it more of a preference thing. I'll be exceptionally sad if I have to spec sighBlood to be taken seriously once we start to properly kill the Watchers onwards.
Not really. Blood is nice for Vezax, and Unholy has more magic-based damage, and thus benefits more on Hodir- though I wonder if frost's higher crit rate would be a significant player as well.

I'd like to see a Death Coil crit for 7000 in tanking gear.
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/ability/4063756/47632/Death%20Coil

(Yeah I know, I cheated - but that there is a 7000 point deathcoil!!11!)

-Splug
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu May 14, 2009 11:07 am

Cheater. =.=

Of course, now I'm going to have to go crit Frost Strike for some outrageous amount now to one up you.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Kelaan » Thu May 14, 2009 5:23 pm

Splug wrote:Keep in mind that bone shield works similar to shaman shield effects; charges are only consumed once per 2.5 seconds, but the effect is passive until all charges are consumed. Thus, with the glyph you'll get an absolute minimum 12.5 seconds of damage reduction, even if you're taking constant damage income. Also, charges are not consumed by auras or dot ticks.

Reeeeeally. I was expecting to lose all four (or six) hits in basically the first couple seconds of an AOE situation. If there's a minimum time between activations, that's MUCH more powerful than I though, and VERY worth the talent point. :D Thanks for the education.

Interesting question, Lev, about there being particular specs that are disadvantaged at various stages of progression.

For a while, I heard Frost was the cookie-cutter DK tanking spec. Blood's self-healing advantage sounds exceptionally nice, though, especially when a guild is working on something like Ignis. I'd be interested in your thoughts for what "optimal" (or at least "good") specs are for:
- Heroics
- Naxxramas
- Ulduar

... and I am kicking myself for being so willing to tank my way through heroics or Naxxramas Yet Again on a DK. WTF am I thinking??? (Aside from the obvious "Getting groups is so much easier") That's mostly a rhetorical quetion, I believe. :)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu May 14, 2009 9:51 pm

I'm inclined to believe Splug when he says that there's not so much a disadvantage, more a flavor difference that helps a little. Blood on Vexaz where healer mana is limited, for example.

I've personally always been Frost since I'm not fond of the mechanics that Unholy and Blood tanks use, and I've never felt any kind of disadvantage in any fight I've been a part of. Admittedly I'm only 7/14 Ulduar though.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Dantriges » Fri May 15, 2009 11:17 am

Levantine wrote:Macro Rune Strike to everything so you can pretty much forget about it. IT-PS will generally beat HB for single target boss fights, the only reason I haven't swapped back to the Icy Touch glyph in my tank build is the sheer level of OP that it is in AoE situations.

Spec's not bad, but 3/5 Bladed Armor will likely beat Subversion for threat. Glyphs are fine.

You were very vague, so that's about the best I can help, sorry. :( Give us a parse of something to see what you're actually doing and how bad your threat actually is. Many specs can and will push your threat to the limit these days. I always freak out at our Arcane mage, since he likes to invis at the last possible second. >_>


Thanks a lot for the help from you and Splug.

I see if I can provide a parse for an analysis.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Fri May 15, 2009 12:04 pm

Levantine wrote:I'm inclined to believe Splug when he says that there's not so much a disadvantage, more a flavor difference that helps a little. Blood on Vexaz where healer mana is limited, for example.

I've personally always been Frost since I'm not fond of the mechanics that Unholy and Blood tanks use, and I've never felt any kind of disadvantage in any fight I've been a part of. Admittedly I'm only 7/14 Ulduar though.


Basically what Lev said, it is mostly personal preference. I've grown very comfortable with Blood, but I will say it is not the spec for you if you're not at (or very close) to hit/exp (soft) cap. I've recently switched out some T7 with T8 which gave me more exp but I lost a good bit of hit and I could really tell.

The threat and damage are awesome and I really like the self healing, I feel naked without it.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Falibard » Fri May 15, 2009 12:19 pm

Splug wrote:
Levantine wrote:I'd like to see a Death Coil crit for 7000 in tanking gear.
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/ability/4063756/47632/Death%20Coil

(Yeah I know, I cheated - but that there is a 7000 point deathcoil!!11!)

-Splug


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/P3xA ... 75&e=10685

Crit for 6978.3 = /

Does that count?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri May 15, 2009 10:50 pm

Nope, not cool enough. Remind me to look at an XT parse one of these days. Lol at 15k Frost Strikes on his heart in tanking gear with a 200ilvl weapon.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Wed May 20, 2009 8:13 am

how many of you HATE glyphed Horn of Winter? i would go as far to say it is the biggest waste of a glyphe slot. with the free RP horn gives you now i use it in my rotation. except when there is a random pug DK that has glyped horn now i have to remove it... hmm guess i could make my horn a macro to remove the 3 min buff before i apply mine but ugh. i just wish they would change it to somethign more useful, or make it so you at least get the RP from it like you do when you have a shaman totem down.
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