[25] Deconstructor kicking butt

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[25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Arees » Tue May 12, 2009 11:07 am

My guild is fairly casual. We've downed FL every week and only gotten Razorscale down last week. We've made very good attempts at Ignus and Deconstruct, and I think we'll get them down this week. I've been the guilds main tank for a while. I've been the one tanking Ignus and Deconstructor because I have the best gear (also the other 2 tanks (dk and druid) don't like tanking as much and usually dps until they are needed to tank.

Last week on the deconstructor, it was like the 3rd attempt or so, I pulled him, and it seemed like he one shot me. I checked my log, and it was 2 attacks, but they were about .3 seconds apart. The first one hit for 26,000 and the second for 17,000. The healers were complaining saying they were having a really hard time healing me.

Unbuffed I have about 31k hp, 27% dodge, 20% parry, 12% block with about 1100 BV. I'm over the def minimum. I have like 24k armor. Deconstructor hits me for about 22k (I have no idea what was going on when he hit me for 26k) every swing. Fully buffed I don't have 44k hp, so if he gets more than 1 swing in a row im toast. Thats what seemed to be our problem every attempt; I would be fine and then all of a sudden be dead. The last attempt, we had the druid tank XT while I pick up adds. The healers said he was much easier to heal, and checking the logs, he only got hit for about 18k per hit, and has over 36k hp, so he can't get 2shot like I can. Ignus has been pretty much the same story.

I don't mind the druid or DK tanking... it just really bugs me that I really enjoy tanking (and they don't), have better gear than them, but they are still able to do it better.

What I was thinking about doing tonight is using dual stam trinkets. I don't have the essence of gossamer. Right now I use the JC trinket and the dodge badge trinket. I'm thinking of making a ruby hare and sticking 2 24 stam gems in it, for an extra 110 stam before talents/kings. Is this a smart thing to do? I'd lose a lot of dodge, and lose the on use effect (I'd still have the dodge on use from the Jc trinket).
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Panzerdin » Tue May 12, 2009 11:18 am

If it's humanly possible, shoot for being able to take two hits before dying.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby rokkon » Tue May 12, 2009 11:19 am

I MT'd him last night doing pretty much exactly what you are thinking of doing. I stacked stam where ever I could. Also stacked armor where ever I could because armor scales with hit size... keystone greatring, amulet of autopsy, cloak of the shadowed sun. If you want to take a look I logged out in the gear I tanked him in with the exception of the shoulders ;)

My logic behind it was if I can't survive 2 hits in a row unhealed then avoidance isn't really going to help me much. Even with very high avoidance bad luck will get you 2 or 3 hits in a row.

I will admit it stressful to watch my healthbar during that fight.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Arees » Tue May 12, 2009 11:28 am

Panzerdin wrote:If it's humanly possible, shoot for being able to take two hits before dying.


I don't see that happening though until I have Ulduar gear. I have 38-39k hp buffed... I'd be hard pressed to gain another 5k. Thats the main reason I'm wondering if this is a good idea. If he can still 2 shot me with extra stam, should I bother with it or stick to avoidance and hope I get lucky?
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Belloc » Tue May 12, 2009 11:49 am

Make sure your healers have their armor buffs on you before the pull (inspiration?).

As far as the two hits are concerned, he probably parried you or one of the melee. Make sure melee are not attacking from the front and not until the boss is fully in position and you are comfortable with your threat.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Falibard » Tue May 12, 2009 11:55 am

Well I went to your armory but you're in Ret gear...so I'll make a few assumptions. If you're tanking in a 25 man you'll have at least a combination of 10/25 Naxx gear. Your professions are JC/Mining so you should be getting some stam boosts from those (Solid Dragonseye, Monarch Crab).

Do you have a warrior who can Demo Shout?
Have you tried using one of these? http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40093

I'd say try to get in the 40k hp range, then use one or both of those debuff/buffs and that may help you reach that "take 2 hits" range.

You'll take the most damage at the beginning of the fight (100 -> 75%) so use Bubblewall early, and follow it with the Indestructible Pot. If your dps is on point (note: nerf made this really easy) you can chain heart phases and not really have to tank anything from 75% to say ~30% and by that time your Bubblewall should be up again. If you're getting one/two shot right off the bat it is probably because your healers aren't really paying attention.

Last week on the deconstructor, it was like the 3rd attempt or so, I pulled him, and it seemed like he one shot me. I checked my log, and it was 2 attacks, but they were about .3 seconds apart. The first one hit for 26,000 and the second for 17,000. The healers were complaining saying they were having a really hard time healing me.


I'm not sure what to say about a .3 second attack, but if he hit you for 4k more than usual you were probably missing Devo aura or some other buff that would give you damage reduction (kings, Gift, etc) then I'm guessing the second one was effected by AD. If you run with a Disc Priest having them healing you and putting shields on you can save a lot of damage as well. I think that the 2 minutes of an extra 3500 armor that the Indestructible Pots will give you will help you out a lot though.

Hope that helps!
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Arees » Tue May 12, 2009 12:16 pm

Falibard wrote:Well I went to your armory but you're in Ret gear...so I'll make a few assumptions. If you're tanking in a 25 man you'll have at least a combination of 10/25 Naxx gear. Your professions are JC/Mining so you should be getting some stam boosts from those (Solid Dragonseye, Monarch Crab).

Do you have a warrior who can Demo Shout?
Have you tried using one of these? http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40093


I have pretty much full naxx25 gear except for my shield. I have never seen a tanking shield drop in a 25 man.

I made sure the warrior was using demo shout, but in that particular 2 shot I don't think anyone had time to do anything. If I can manage to get some tonight before the raid I'll try some of those potions..
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby rokkon » Tue May 12, 2009 12:32 pm

Falibard wrote:So use Bubblewall early, and follow it with the Indestructible Pot.


Wouldn't it be better to pop the potion just before engaging him, so you can use another one during the fight if needed?

Waterboy also don't forget your armor items. I replaced an avoidance neck for an armor one and an avoidance ring for an armor one just for this fight. Same thing for the cloak. This netted me 1330 armor. Given that XT hits for ~60k and in my gear 1330 armor was approaching 2% damage reduction XT was hitting me for around 1.5k less than he would have without the armor. Multiply that by 2 shots and it's ~300 stamina I didn't have to have to survive in exchange for some avoidance.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Panzerdin » Tue May 12, 2009 12:45 pm

If you can't make two hits, then just stack avoidance and hope your healers are awake.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Wolvar » Tue May 12, 2009 12:50 pm

The MT should never take 2 hits without a heal in a 25 man. Yell at your healers.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby rokkon » Tue May 12, 2009 1:14 pm

WATERBOYsh wrote:I checked my log, and it was 2 attacks, but they were about .3 seconds apart.

Wolvar wrote:The MT should never take 2 hits without a heal in a 25 man. Yell at your healers.


Seems like a tight margin of error, not something I'd yell at them for personally. Granted with hots and multiple healers 2 hits in a row shouldn't happen but bad luck still comes into play.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Seloei » Tue May 12, 2009 2:23 pm

On 25 man, deconstructor is not the only boss who will kill you if your healers dont heal you in 2s time before the next hit comes.

If they can't heal you through the first hard hitter, you will fail utterly on most of the later bosses.

For some reason, i doubt you got 2 hits in a row, in that short duration. Was it not a gravity bomb in melee range + melee hit from the boss? I'd suggest getting a meter that shows what happened in the last 10-15s of when someone dies to see more clearly.

edit: Skada and recount do it, i prefer skada more info.
Last edited by Seloei on Tue May 12, 2009 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Arees » Tue May 12, 2009 2:32 pm

Seloei wrote:On 25 man, deconstructor is not the only boss who will kill you if your healers dont heal you in 2s time before the next hit comes.

If they can't heal you through the first hard hitter, you will fail utterly on most of the later bosses.

For some reason, i doubt you got 2 hits in a row, in that short duration. Was it not a gravity bomb in melee range + melee hit from the boss? Get a meter that shows what happened in the last 10-15s of when someone dies to see more clearly.


It wasn't a gravity bomb or light bomb... the boss had just been pulled and no one was near me. It happened so fast that the healers though that I had been one shot (like how ignus used to bug out and hit me for 80k). I used the death section of recount to see that 0.7 seconds before I died he hit me for 26k, and then 0.3 seconds before I died he hit me for 17k. I'm thinking he was parry hasted and maybe I didn't have JotJ up yet to slow his speed down. Recount could easily be off a few tenths of a second, but like I said... the healers thought I had been one shot, and even I thought that until I looked at recount.

That was just a one time fluke though... he never hit me that hard any other time. Usually it was closer to 20k.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby amh » Tue May 12, 2009 2:35 pm

If you pull him all gung ho ninja cowboy style you're asking for trouble. Edge up nice and tight to where you want to tank him, ask for a misdirect :) You're in position, healers are in position already spamming (armor-buff up, divine aegis). Especially if you have pursuit of justice, out-ranging your healers on the pull is far from impossible. Better to have them nice and comfortable in a good spot.

Ofcourse this won't help jack all for that .3 second gib, but it's a good method to use anyway :)
I used to play a paladin.
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Re: [25] Deconstructor kicking butt

Postby Arees » Wed May 13, 2009 6:24 am

Well, we downed him last night. Last night we got FL down (we've been doing really good on him... gonna try with a tower up next week), got Razorscale on about the 3rd attempt, and got Deconstructor down. We cleared trash to Kologarn and gave him one attempt so everyone could see him before we ran out of time. It was nice having to use cc on the trash for once.... mindless zerging is fun sometimes, but I personally enjoy strategy.

I used a Ruby Hare instead of my dodge trinket, and had a warlock pull out an imp. I was sitting right at 40k hp, and he hits me for around 20k normally. BUT, I had 30 of those indestructible potions made and the healers said it made a HUGE difference. I think I was surviving two hits in a row, because now AD was reducing the 2nd hits enough so they wouldn't kill me.

I ended up getting the ring from FL (finally dropped!) and I got the block belt from Razorscale to add to my block set.

Kinda OT, but my guild doesn't want to do Ignus. They are convinced hes really hard and that most guilds skip him and come back when they have more ulduar gear. Their reasoning is that since he doesn't have a hard mode he is tuned harder. What probably also contributes to it, is our first week in Ulduar after killing FL we went to Ignus 2nd and he kept one shotting me (literally hitting me for 80k). We read that he was bugged and moved on to Razorscale. The GL says he talked to a few people in the top guild on the server and that they always skip Ignus because hes to hard. So now they don't want to do Ignus until people have more upgrades..... I'm kinda lobbying to kill Ignus before we move (partly because of the awesome trinket). I know hes been nerfed several times..... any suggestions of what I could say to convince the other officers that Ignus isn't this super difficult boss? Both of our 10 man teams downed him after just a couple attempts...
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