Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby neokai » Thu May 07, 2009 2:18 am

Gamingdevil wrote:PPM get a chance to proce calculated off your weapon speed. Hence, instant attacks will have the same chance to proc, upping the chance you'll get it.


Pardon me, but isn't ppm "proc per min"? I have been living under a rock, so pls explain to me the correlation between instant attacks and proc rate.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Candiru » Thu May 07, 2009 2:33 am

PPM is the number of procs from white attacks.

Instant-strikes have the same chance to proc as a white attack.

This means that the slower your weapon, the greater the % chance of proccing on each *strike*.

Since you get the same number of average procs per minute from white, and a constant number of yellow strikes the slower your weapon the more procs you actually get per unit time.

PPM is the proc rate from white attacks, effective ppm, is the number of procs you actually get using instant attacks at a certain weapon speed.

If that makes sense?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby neokai » Thu May 07, 2009 2:58 am

icic. So the 1 ppm of blade ward actually could mean .5 ppm using just white hits?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Candiru » Thu May 07, 2009 3:11 am

Well it depends on if HotR can proc blade ward, the speed of the weapon used, the average number of mobs hit by HotR, if the person testing useed HotR or not...
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MrDuck » Thu May 07, 2009 3:20 am

neokai wrote:icic. So the 1 ppm of blade ward actually could mean .5 ppm using just white hits?

The other way around, It's prolly about 1PPM just using white hits, and everything on top of that (hotr procs it for sure, no idea about other attacks) adds up on it. So if you have 2s weapon and use hotr every 6, you'll get 1,33PPM.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby neokai » Thu May 07, 2009 3:33 am

Well this is all speculation but based on all the logs, the proc rate of Blade Ward is extremely underwhelming.

We really need somebody to run some no.s with white hits, then with HotR factored in to test this.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby aleyona » Thu May 07, 2009 6:26 am

Varmin wrote:Agi would be very close, also factoring in the armor gain. Blood Draining is quite capable for survivability as well.


I seriously dislike any arguments for Blood Draining on a paladin. For a warrior it would be okay. Almost every Tankadin I know picks up Argent defender. Blood draining saves up to give you like ~2k healing when under 35%. Argent defender reduces damage under 25% by 30%...

So, let's go into a situation where Argent defender would save us. We have 36k hp, our AD range is < 12600.

Blood Draining
We take a series of hits, and are now at 11000. Blood Draining procs and puts us at 13000. We get hit for 14000, and die.

Argent Defender
We take a series of hits, and are now at 11000. Argent Defender becomes active. We get hit for 14000, AD reduces that damage to 9800. We now have 1200 health, and are alive.

I honestly can't understand people considering blood draining a good enchant for a Prot Paladin. If you seriously needed health that bad, you could toss on Seal of Light for a little bit and pick up some free health. I still tank with seal of wisdom for 5-mans until I hit bosses because I have absolutely no threat issues.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby aleyona » Thu May 07, 2009 6:33 am

neokai wrote:Well this is all speculation but based on all the logs, the proc rate of Blade Ward is extremely underwhelming.

We really need somebody to run some no.s with white hits, then with HotR factored in to test this.


I'll be glad to do that tonight and post the results. I just got blade ward on my titanguard and am exceptionally pleased with it. Apparently raiding holy means I get to pick up tank gear in Ulduar (well, that and our warrior tank wasn't around so nobody else actually wanted it).
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Lave » Thu May 07, 2009 7:52 am

aleyona wrote:
Varmin wrote:Agi would be very close, also factoring in the armor gain. Blood Draining is quite capable for survivability as well.


I seriously dislike any arguments for Blood Draining on a paladin.


and i seriously dislike the poor design of ardent defender (and thus dont care about it becoming even less effective as a sideeffect of an enchant) since its weaker the more dangerous my enemy is (its just beeing bypassed by every boss that troubles your healers)
its a nice thing to have for trash/adds but next to useless for bosses (unless they implement a quad-wielder extrem fast attacker
with high dps but low individual hits - wich might never happen)

in addition:
our AD range is < 12600. [...]Blood Draining
We take a series of hits, and are now at 11000. Blood Draining procs and puts us at 13000. We get hit for 14000, and die.

consider this: we are at 10000, blood draining puts us to 12000. we get hit for 11000 and survive (cause of blood draining)
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby theothersteve7 » Thu May 07, 2009 8:00 am

The big thing about Blood Draining is that the AD range is just barely big enough to allow us to take one more hit from a typical boss, if we're in the upper end. Blood Draining decreases the size of this range. As hits get weaker, it becomes more viable. If I had a trash weapon I might get it.

Consider that a 4k heal every time you're at <5% HP isn't going to save you from dying to the next hit you take.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MaVesis » Thu May 07, 2009 9:45 am

Here another log for Blade Ward. Prot Paladin and Def Warrior. Both same time tank gear and spec. Different amount of procs and uptime. Just use it for your statistics.


http://wowwebstats.com/uezq65uzsujj5?s=bosses&ab=64440
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 07, 2009 10:38 am

MrDuck wrote:
neokai wrote:icic. So the 1 ppm of blade ward actually could mean .5 ppm using just white hits?

The other way around, It's prolly about 1PPM just using white hits, and everything on top of that (hotr procs it for sure, no idea about other attacks) adds up on it. So if you have 2s weapon and use hotr every 6, you'll get 1,33PPM.

Basically this. Folks have been reporting it procing on judgments and hotr. Most parses I've seen show that the total number of procs is a little bit more than the number of minutes someone was DPSing. Which suggests 1PPM but that more than just auto attack procs it. The actual number of procs per minute seems to fall somewhere between 1 and 1.5 on the WWS logs I've seen.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 07, 2009 10:42 am

MaVesis wrote:Here another log for Blade Ward. Prot Paladin and Def Warrior. Both same time tank gear and spec. Different amount of procs and uptime. Just use it for your statistics.


http://wowwebstats.com/uezq65uzsujj5?s=bosses&ab=64440


57 minutes of DPSing, 76 procs = 1.33 PPM very consistent with other logs.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MaVesis » Thu May 07, 2009 2:49 pm

But there is also a different to the proc rate for prot Warriors. Log today:

Noise - Paladin - 51 min - 51 procs
Toebs - Warrior - 49 min - 87 procs

He have 70% more procs then me.

Edit: When you say just about 1 ppm, it is equal to 3.3 parry rating ?! (200 rating proc / 60 sec)

Arghs, wrong calculation. 200 rating / 60 sec * 10 sec uptime = 33 rating -> this right now i think.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 07, 2009 2:55 pm

The PPM provided by the enchant itself is static, and is probably 1PPM. However, that is based off of auto attack, so if you have other attacks that proc it, you can get more than 1 proc per minute on average. Since it seems that HotR procs it, we usually end up with a little more than 1 PPM (like your 1.3PPM from your parse). Warriors have more attacks that can proc it than we do, so they will end up with a few more procs. Toebs had a 1.77 PPM rate by that data.

So it's the same base PPM rate for all the tanking classes, but warrior mechanics allow them to improve it a bit more.
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