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[10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

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[10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:18 pm

The latest round of Ulduar nerfs mentioned Razorscale, but the more detailed list of what was changed on various encounters didn't cover that fight. Anyone know what happened? Our raiders have stand-in-blue-fire-itis, take a leisurely stroll to start hitting Razor on the landings, and our healers can't decide who wants to heal fireball damage. We usually hit berserk around 15-20%. :(

I have a feeling XT will actually be easier for us at this point, since we were consistently hitting 35% or so the first week. With all the hp nerfs and berserk extensions there, it'll probably be cake by comparison.
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Palabrewtis » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:42 pm

They reduced the damage slightly for pretty much everything, and made the mole machines spawn closer together to make it easier to acquire targets and start killing them faster. Thankfully the basics of the encounter didn't change. People still have to get out of fire; people still have to kill the correct mobs, and everyone especially healers have to always be on their toes. Just like every other encounter in the instance for the most part.

If your raiders are having a hard time getting out of huge blue flaming earth then they aren't going to get out of huge green aoe runes, eye laz0rz, get underneath trees or any of the countless other movement requirements to successfully do most encounters in Ulduar. I personally would suggest doing Razorscale until you get it down. It's a great starting point for getting your raiders ready for the rest of the instance.
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:13 pm

There was a change (not sure if it was in the round that you are thinking) that the watchers were made so that they couldn't cast their chain lightning while moving.
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:45 pm

Sorry, I should put a reference link in these things, huh?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4809&sid=1

The post from Daelo is from the 28th, but the last Razorscale change in Bornakk's hotfix list is from 4/21 where they did the things you guys mentioned. Wasn't sure if there was more that they just did...

-- As for my raiders... you're certainly right. We've killed razorscale both weeks so far, but it's just painfully close to or during the enrage timer every time. Last night we were losing people moreso to the double-fireballs than the blue flames, so it was a healing issue. I'm just flabbergasted that we just don't have more dps. We had fine dps in Naxx, and the last week before the patch we shaved 30-60 seconds off of most of our fastest kill times. We get to Razorscale and we just cannot get her to 50% in 2 landings, and we were getting XT to 35% pretty much every single time the first week, and haven't been back since (thanks to 2 called raids due to attendance).
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:58 pm

That sounds more like a strategy issue. Do you go all out on Razor when he lands, or do you have your DPS finish off adds first? Are you popping heroism when he's down? How are you timing when you fix the last harpoon?
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby inthedrops » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:47 pm

I did notice the tunneler spawns all grouped up. It was a surprise. I don't necessarily think it makes things any easier.
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Dem » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:12 am

Makes it easier to only take 2 tanks...
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:33 am

Fridmarr wrote:That sounds more like a strategy issue. Do you go all out on Razor when he lands, or do you have your DPS finish off adds first? Are you popping heroism when he's down? How are you timing when you fix the last harpoon?


Yes immediate switch (at least that's what we tell them. looking at WWS shows me how long different people take to start hitting razor... i've seen upwards of 15 seconds for some people), yes heroism on the first landing. We aren't timing the 4th harpoon against anything in particular, though. Do you mean cleaning up adds before hitting #4? Waiting for people to move to the middle? Something else?
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Nalyn » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:11 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:That sounds more like a strategy issue. Do you go all out on Razor when he lands, or do you have your DPS finish off adds first? Are you popping heroism when he's down? How are you timing when you fix the last harpoon?


Yes immediate switch (at least that's what we tell them. looking at WWS shows me how long different people take to start hitting razor... i've seen upwards of 15 seconds for some people), yes heroism on the first landing. We aren't timing the 4th harpoon against anything in particular, though. Do you mean cleaning up adds before hitting #4? Waiting for people to move to the middle? Something else?


If people are taking THAT long to switch targets, you're going to have problems with most every boss encounter deeper in the zone, Kologarn, Thorim, Freya, heck even Deconstructor require quick targeting and retargeting.

As far as the strat, get it beat into their heads that dps on the trash doesn't matter as long as it dies, they need to have Razorscale targeted and start pew-pew'ing as soon as she hits the ground. Timing the 4th Harpoon ... it's more along the lines of what kinds of adds, you don't want a vykrul add up while the dragon is on the ground, kill it, then fire the last harpoon. Other things, how do you have your raid positioned? This was the big one for us, we were basically spead out at random, and it was losing us people from the flame patches and fireballs, due to people being clumped up in bad places and being out of range of healers. If you split your raid into two groups, and position those groups on the NE and SE 'corners' of the circle, with a tank in the middle area playing flame patch decoy, tank the vykrul in the center (your ranged should be able to hit it easily), and have your other two tanks drag the other mobs back to your north and south groups, you'll likely have better luck. This should also help on the DPS transitions to the dragon, as everyone starts just behind the dragon when it's grounded, so there should be no repositioning/transit time involved any more.
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Dreamcrusher » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:21 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:Yes immediate switch (at least that's what we tell them. looking at WWS shows me how long different people take to start hitting razor... i've seen upwards of 15 seconds for some people), yes heroism on the first landing. We aren't timing the 4th harpoon against anything in particular, though. Do you mean cleaning up adds before hitting #4? Waiting for people to move to the middle? Something else?



What we do on 10 is have 2 groups, one to the left of the circle, one to the right. We split the dps/healers evenly, but put all the melee on the right side. Left side is tanked by me with only caster DPS, so I pull all the sentinels (ww) On 25, it's mostly the same but we have a third tank assigned to sentinels, The only thing we wait for when the last harpoon is ready are sentinels. As soon as there are no sentinels and it's ready, ALL dps ignores the adds and starts getting ready to dps the boss as it's being launched. Bloodlust as soon as she's in range, tanks take their mobs to the boss' tail and help dps the boss, everyone keeps burning til she flies back out of range, then back on adds. Repeat for the second grounding and she should be grounded permanently. I always pull my mobs to the warrior tank and have him cshout them off me (unless we get lucky and theres no adds on me at grounding) so I can take the boss. As soon as the boss grounds, everyone aoe's out the adds then burns the boss. Whichever tank isnt on the boss taunts off when current tank gets 2 debuffs (they need to be watching/expecting and be ready to taunt the MOMENT they get 2). Keep kiting the boss around as the flame patches get put on tanks and collect loot. :D
<3
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Re: [10/25] Razorscale, latest nerf did what?

Postby Kelaan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:25 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:We aren't timing the 4th harpoon against anything in particular, though. Do you mean cleaning up adds before hitting #4? Waiting for people to move to the middle? Something else?


We have someone whose main job (aside from DPS) is to hit harpoons. They make sure to call out in vent, "3 harpoons so far, fourth one will be soon." Then, when there's a lull in the mole machine adds, calls out that he is harpooning the dragon, and everyone knows that she is coming down. That probably gives us an extra 5-10 seconds of DPS time on her per landing. Communication really helps it seem less hectic.
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