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Mongoose Questions

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Mongoose Questions

Postby Mert » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:59 am

After getting a new belt from Ulduar, I decided that it might be time to replace the Titanium Weapon Chain on Last Laugh and replace it with something else. Right now I'm leaning toward Mongoose but I have no experience with the enchant at all so wondered if people could clarify a few things for me?

1. Which of our abilities can cause it to proc? I'm assuming that autoswing, HotR and Judgement all do, but what about SotR or blocks from HS?

2. I've heard the ppm of Mongoose range between 1.25 to 5.5 but these posts often don't indicate whether that's only on white swings, the speed of the weapon, etc. Assuming a solid, uninterrupted 969 with Last Laugh, what sort of proc rate would it be reasonable to assume? Doesn't have to be amazingly accurate, just a rough estimate would be awesome.

3. If I'm at 102.4% without Mongoose procs, does it simply extend the range of dodge when it does, pushing my block slightly off the table? I didn't think that more block would push dodge off the table, but if it does (ie. more block reduces the effect of a Mongoose proc) then that may be worth a rethink on my part.

4. Am I right in thinking that a Mongoose proc would be subject to diminishing returns? If so, is there some merit in stacking (or reducing) certain stats to ensure I get the most use out of it?


Apologies for the probably fairly obvious questions but I've never looked into Mongoose at all before (still new to WoW so wasn't there for its heyday in TBC even) and I couldn't find anything by searching this site. Thanks in advance :)
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:11 am

1. Auto attacks, HotR and maybe Judgement. Nothing else.

2. Not sure of it myself

3. Block gets pushed off the table and avoidance stays at the bottom, you have nothing to worry about.

4. Yes it does suffer DR and no you shouldn't change your gearing because of it because you will only make yourself worse overall trying to maximize mongoose's proc.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Mert » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:52 am

Thanks a lot for the quick response, much appreciated :)
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Candiru » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:25 am

Due to DR and the level 70->80 mongoose nerf, you might be better off with plain old +26agi enchant.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Jasari » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:27 am

Candiru wrote:Due to DR and the level 70->80 mongoose nerf, you might be better off with plain old +26agi enchant.


DR on dodge affects +26 agility too.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Candiru » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:29 am

Indeed, but a constant 20agi vs a +100agi with 1/5th uptime?

The 20agi will give more effective dodge due to DR :)

(although, then you get into avoidance scaling with itself and it all gets rather complicated.. but you see what I mean)
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Jasari » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:32 am

Candiru wrote:Indeed, but a constant 20agi vs a +100agi with 1/5th uptime?

The 20agi will give more effective dodge due to DR :)

(although, then you get into avoidance scaling with itself and it all gets rather complicated.. but you see what I mean)


Yeah, I use 26 agi myself.

I just feel like a lot of people have a misconception that DR starts to "kick in" at some point which obviously isn't the case.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:40 am

What I have heard is that mongoose provides slightly higher average avoidance and more threat due to the haste bonus and higher average crit.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Amaranthea » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:57 pm

Neither the mongoose proc rate nor agility granted were reduced from 70 to 80.

The proc rate is sufficient to make it better than 26 agility unless you happen to need the constant avoidance (what a weird term, although guaranteed avoidance doesn't sound any better!) to hit block cap.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Varmin » Fri May 01, 2009 3:20 pm

Amaranthea wrote:Neither the mongoose proc rate nor agility granted were reduced from 70 to 80.

The proc rate is sufficient to make it better than 26 agility unless you happen to need the constant avoidance (what a weird term, although guaranteed avoidance doesn't sound any better!) to hit block cap.


False, mongoose proc rate was reduced to 1ppm from 1.2ppm.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby majiben » Fri May 01, 2009 3:21 pm

That's a boost.....
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Varmin » Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 pm

Heh, it's actually a bit larger than it looks. It drops the uptime of the base ppm from 30% to 25% (~16% uptime nerf).
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Salamandra » Fri May 01, 2009 5:28 pm

The way you said it was wrong then. Changing from 1ppm to 1.2ppm would be a 20% uptime increase. Perhaps what you meant was that it changed from 1ppm to proccing 1 time per 1.2 minutes. I don't know if that's actually true or not, though.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Amaranthea » Fri May 01, 2009 5:40 pm

I hadn't checked the ppm theorycraft in a while. You're right - mongoose appears to be 1 ppm now. That still leaves it ahead of 26 agi though.
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Re: Mongoose Questions

Postby Amaranthea » Fri May 01, 2009 6:42 pm

Varmin wrote:Heh, it's actually a bit larger than it looks. It drops the uptime of the base ppm from 30% to 25% (~16% uptime nerf).


Technically the base uptime should be a bit lower because the procs can overlap. It's only a few % though, and it's (more than) made up for when you take into account procs generated by HotR, which as far as I know is the only other prot attack that can proc it.
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