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are we actually advantaged for prince?

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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are we actually advantaged for prince?

Postby Bubbleoseven » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm

last night was my first time tanking prince, i was sitting at about 15k buffed hp and 15.4 k armour with devo, we didn't down prince due to some absolutely horrible infernal drops.
but when we decided to call it, the healers were whinging that they wouldn't have to spam heals during phase 2 if they were using another tank class, is this true or were my healers just whining because of paladin predgidous?and more to the point what should i do to help avoid this problem?
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Postby Invisusira » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:22 pm

Paladins are actually the BEST tank class for prince stage 2, thanks to our 8 charge shield block; Druids are the worst due to their crushability.
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Postby Melathys » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:11 pm

My last run..phase 2 was a complete joke.

Paladin has the luxury to disengage prince for phase 2 (eliminating parries) while still keeping up superb TPS, via holy shield, consecration and exorcism.

Legacy of the mountain king is pretty nifty, popping agi pot (if you don't have some flask active) and agi food/scroll helps too, to boost that dodge up as much as possible. I was at 24% dodge on my last prince run. Ironskin potion can be handy too...not necessarily necessary, but the encounter is dependent on me to survive, I figure I should show the raid the respect of bringing all my cards to the table.
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Postby Viskahn » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:31 am

i tanked prince for the second time last night. first try we wiped due to the worst imaginable infernal placements, even after i had managed to run through an infernal to get to the only remaining safe spot (our pala healer was awake and bubbled so he could keep healing while the rest of the raid moved).

second try we had some very nice infernal placement, i didnt need to move at all until about 10%.
but anyway, i would say paladins are definitely the best tank for prince. two main reasons;
1) he is a demon ie exorcism. we have some pretty well geared dps in the guild, so that extra threat is a big benefit in phase 1.
2) more importantly, he dual wields. in phase 2 a warriors shield block can easily be smashed through, leaving them crushable; holy shield will virtually never be used up before its duration/cooldown. the fast hits are also another big boost for our threat, by 50% last night i had a comfortable 50k threat lead or so above the next dpser, who is a warlock that i usually struggle to outaggro.

threat is a non-issue, we are the only uncrushable tank on the fight. as long as you have a satisfactory gear level then prince is just down to the luck of the infernals. you should obviously be taking the usual precautions and procedures such as consumables, but prince is a good fight for a tankadin.


now if only they would fix the kara drops; 5 full clears and 2 pieces of tanking plate. gah.
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Postby Bubbleoseven » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:49 am

well it kinda went all right lol, aside from the 2 times healers stuffed up heal rotation in phase 2 ( 3 hits without heal = ouch), the only reason we were dying wa because we are losing a melee DPS in phase 1 :S and therefore getting overwhelmed by infernals at 4%

but still even at 15k hp raid buffed and 18k armour raid buffed, i had healers saying they would prefer to heal a warrior with my gear through the fight, wil nothing convince ignorant people these days?
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Postby Caelia » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:50 am

get new healers.
In Progress: Fury Warrior: Tailwhip
All Retired: Holy Priest:Appletons | DK Blood Tank: Dreadborne | Prot Paladin: Welsh
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Postby Rhî » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:34 am

Bubbleoseven wrote:well it kinda went all right lol, aside from the 2 times healers stuffed up heal rotation in phase 2 ( 3 hits without heal = ouch), the only reason we were dying wa because we are losing a melee DPS in phase 1 :S and therefore getting overwhelmed by infernals at 4%

but still even at 15k hp raid buffed and 18k armour raid buffed, i had healers saying they would prefer to heal a warrior with my gear through the fight, wil nothing convince ignorant people these days?


15k buffed HP isn't much. You should have at least 16k buffed, otherwise you can not blame your healers. Smoother gameplay starts with 17k buffed.

BoK, Fortitude, Imp, Commanding. Every buff is almost or more than 1k HP. And you should have at least three of them, while you aren't higher than 12k HP unbuffed.
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Postby Pizbit » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:52 am

*healer hat*
Tel your healers to l2p kthnxbai. No really. They're just whinging. :)
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Postby Bubbleoseven » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:39 pm

Rhî wrote:
Bubbleoseven wrote:well it kinda went all right lol, aside from the 2 times healers stuffed up heal rotation in phase 2 ( 3 hits without heal = ouch), the only reason we were dying wa because we are losing a melee DPS in phase 1 :S and therefore getting overwhelmed by infernals at 4%

but still even at 15k hp raid buffed and 18k armour raid buffed, i had healers saying they would prefer to heal a warrior with my gear through the fight, wil nothing convince ignorant people these days?


15k buffed HP isn't much. You should have at least 16k buffed, otherwise you can not blame your healers. Smoother gameplay starts with 17k buffed.

BoK, Fortitude, Imp, Commanding. Every buff is almost or more than 1k HP. And you should have at least three of them, while you aren't higher than 12k HP unbuffed.


yeah the biggest reason for hp loss was the warrior dyin and not keeping up the shout but last night, the healer whinging (also the raid leader) decided to sub me out for a warrior who ended up with 800 less buffed hp then i had and less armour because i used ironshield pots, then he subbed out 2 DPS that he knew were holding us back and they got it 2nd try /sigh
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Postby Lieris » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:04 pm

It sounds like your guild are going out of their way to undermine you if they are that vocal and even sub in a warrior with worse gear. I try not to have a victim complex about this sort of thing but from the sounds of things I think they have a bias against paladin tanks :/

FWIW the first time I tanked Prince we one shot him and I had 14.5K health. I was never at any point in risk of dying, he really is a joke for us to tank assuming you're uncrushable. Your healers are lying if they say they found you harder to heal. Talk to them and try to resolve things :)

I assume here you don't suck at tanking and spam the holy shield button like crazy! ;)
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Postby Robbert » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:16 pm

I'd agree that prince is actually easier with a Pally tank. I've been on the healing end of that fight (back in my holy/prot days) with some decently geared warriors tanking across multiple runs. Generally things would go smooth...but occasionally the Prince would absolutely demolish the warrior and only with a few lucky heals at the rigth time could we pull through. Basically...a warrior WILL eat crushing blows on Prince in phase 2 where a Pally won't (generally).

That being said...we did have a wipe on prince with me tanking where I went from full health (15.7k at the time) to dead. Checked the combat log which looked something like this...

Prince hits Robbert - 3k damage
Prince hits Robbert - 5k damage (crush)
Prince hits Robbert - 5k damage (crush)
Prince hits Robbert - 5k damage (crush)
Holy shield fades

Not much can be done about Prince sneaking in a string of crushes in that tiny window when holy shield is down.
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Postby Anubisknight » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:47 pm

15k hp raid buffed should be plenty for prince. Make sure that you keep holy shield up at all times. No other move/spell is more important than this if you have just started attempting prince. I would suggest that you start clicking the holy shield button about 2-3 seconds before it actually wears off - to minimize the chance of prince sneaking in a crushing blow.

If in spite of this, your healers say that a warrior would be better, I'd direct you to Caelia's and Pizbit's posts.
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Postby Brute » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:22 am

holy shield, holy shield, holy shield.

I can't forget the time when I f'd up my GCD's and left holy shield down for under a second.

3 crushes for 6k in that time period... dead paladin. Replaced with warrior. Haven't been allowed to tank him since. WTF. Doesn't help that both the GM and the RL had warrior mains pre-bc.

Since then I've gotten some more HP and stocked up on ironshield pots and agi elixirs, all in anticipation of another shot, but I don't know if its going to happen.
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Postby Zhalseran » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:43 am

Paladins have an advantage against any dual wielding, or particularly fast attacking mob. 8 charges in 10 seconds is less likely to run out than 2 charges in 5 seconds, and Druids just get crazy armor. Now Prince only dual wields for phase 2, but that is also, generally, the hardest phase. Your healers should be spamming heals on the tank regardless of who it is tanking, and a Paladin is no different. The only difference is that Phase 2 is likely when a Warrior tank would pop some cooldowns to get through the phase smoothly.

When I am leading a Prince attempt, I usually make a point of saying that Phase 1 should be about getting a good lead on aggro, phase 2 is all about surviving. As a Paladin all you can really do to increase survivability on the fly is pop trinkets and ensure Holy Shield is up as often as possible, so make sure you do those things.
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Postby Drusus » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:32 pm

I did it easily with the garbage gear I'm wearing on the armory right now.

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