Remove Advertisements

Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Ekko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:04 am

I'm 110% sure it was not auto hitting, I know it turns on auto attack now (3.1 thing?), but I stood at a particular angle and distance from the dummy that my toon would not swing at all at it but can still cast HotR.
Last edited by Ekko on Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Ekko
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Ekko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:08 am

Parse of me going against lvl 60 target dummy, spamming HotR AND auto attacking:

http://wowwebstats.com/3lckskvompalq?a= ... 310b#buffs

Shows blade warding 24% of the time it's up, but bear in mind the buff drops if I parry a hit and the dummy isn't attacking me so .... :lol:
Maybe of more value: Procced 121 times out of 1889 hits.

I have 0 idea how weapon speed affects the proc rate of an enchant :?
But for a 2.5 speed weap, and spamming HotR, that gives a 6.4% chance to proc per hit.
I'd love to test it with my crappy old 1.6 speed sword but....well repair costs are too high nowadays to go around wasting cash on such an enchant.
Image
Ekko
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MrDuck » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:39 am

Well here comes my SWS. Since 19.4. these fights are all with me wearing Last Laugh with Blade Ward.

Some of the better (and full 6min) attempts is here, just for an example:
http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... html#auras (see blade warding at 20,6% uptime)
http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... html#auras (24,9%)

Some attempts show as small as 10% uptime, however its usually from shorter ones, so more space for random occurances affecting the result. However, its still a chance on hit, so it can be as bas as 0% uptime if you are like really unlucky.

EDIT: deleted these reports considering them out of date, if anyone's still interested, i'll re-parse the stuff ;)
Last edited by MrDuck on Mon May 04, 2009 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
MrDuck
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:27 pm
Location: Obsidian Sanctum

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Ekko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:34 am

MrDuck wrote:http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... html#auras (see blade warding at 20,6% uptime)

Melee hits + HotR hits = 302
Blade ward procs = 10
Proc rate = 3.31%

Blade ward dmg procs = 3
Total dmg = 2520


Melee hits + HotR hits = 286
Blade ward procs = 12
Proc rate = 4.2%

Blad ward dmg procs = 7
Total dmg = 7480
:?:
Image
Ekko
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MrDuck » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:05 am

Ekko wrote:
MrDuck wrote:http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... html#auras (see blade warding at 20,6% uptime)

Melee hits + HotR hits = 302
Blade ward procs = 10
Proc rate = 3.31%

Blade ward dmg procs = 3
Total dmg = 2520


Melee hits + HotR hits = 286
Blade ward procs = 12
Proc rate = 4.2%

Blad ward dmg procs = 7
Total dmg = 7480
:?:

Well i'm not talking about proc rate, but actual uptime of the Blade Ward buff, so basically the time for how long i have increased parry. I count that as much more valuable information, and i even like these results :P It could do more damage, but overall avoidance, if the uptime is,lets say, 20%, it's 0,5% avoidance on average over the course of a fight, nothing i'd throw out of the window.
Image
MrDuck
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:27 pm
Location: Obsidian Sanctum

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby steadypal » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:46 am

MrDuck wrote:
Ekko wrote:
MrDuck wrote:http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... html#auras (see blade warding at 20,6% uptime)

Melee hits + HotR hits = 302
Blade ward procs = 10
Proc rate = 3.31%

Blade ward dmg procs = 3
Total dmg = 2520


Melee hits + HotR hits = 286
Blade ward procs = 12
Proc rate = 4.2%

Blad ward dmg procs = 7
Total dmg = 7480
:?:

Well i'm not talking about proc rate, but actual uptime of the Blade Ward buff, so basically the time for how long i have increased parry. I count that as much more valuable information, and i even like these results :P It could do more damage, but overall avoidance, if the uptime is,lets say, 20%, it's 0,5% avoidance on average over the course of a fight, nothing i'd throw out of the window.



.5% avoidance on avg? why not just get 26agi to wpn and call it a day?
steadypal
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Ekko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:52 am

Ye regarding the uptime, it seems to be that.....the bigger the number of procs and the less the uptime is, the better, no? Doesn't seem that great to have high uptime as it means you didn't parry that often when it was up, though this would be greatly dependent on the attack speed of the boss.

Ulduar 25 man XT, Razorscale, pre Kol trash and some Kol attempts.
http://wowwebstats.com/xfnulasfdseq3?ab=64440

Best news is that it seems it CAN crit :D

I got a 7% uptime there.

Melee hits + Hotr hits = 1113 + 542 = 1655
Blade ward procs = 110
Proc rate = 110/1655 = 6.64%

Blade ward dmg procs = 40
Total dmg done = 40016
Image
Ekko
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MrDuck » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:31 am

steadypal wrote:.5% avoidance on avg? why not just get 26agi to wpn and call it a day?
Well i believe it was skightly less, more like 0,35% dodge from 26 agi? However, that uptime doesnt consider stacks also, so if you have 2 or even 3 stacks, it still shows the same uptime, so there might come larger advantage.
Image
MrDuck
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:27 pm
Location: Obsidian Sanctum

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:33 am

MrDuck wrote:Well i'm not talking about proc rate, but actual uptime of the Blade Ward buff, so basically the time for how long i have increased parry. I count that as much more valuable information, and i even like these results :P It could do more damage, but overall avoidance, if the uptime is,lets say, 20%, it's 0,5% avoidance on average over the course of a fight, nothing i'd throw out of the window.
No, the uptime is not very useful unless you are not block capped. If it wasn't consumed on a parry, then uptime would be a better indicator of the power of the buff. Unfortunately, a high uptime relative to the number of procs just measures an amount of time where you know you got no mitigation benefit from the proc.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Dorvan » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:04 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
MrDuck wrote:Well i'm not talking about proc rate, but actual uptime of the Blade Ward buff, so basically the time for how long i have increased parry. I count that as much more valuable information, and i even like these results :P It could do more damage, but overall avoidance, if the uptime is,lets say, 20%, it's 0,5% avoidance on average over the course of a fight, nothing i'd throw out of the window.
No, the uptime is not very useful unless you are not block capped. If it wasn't consumed on a parry, then uptime would be a better indicator of the power of the buff. Unfortunately, a high uptime relative to the number of procs just measures an amount of time where you know you got no mitigation benefit from the proc.


I disagree strongly, uptime is a useful metric, and in fact *the* metric on the avoidance side of the enchant. The actual number of parries you get from the enchant has a very high variance, and looking at the actual number of parries you got doesn't tell you whether those parries were due to the enchant, nor does it give you any basis for comparison with other avoidance enchants. Measuring a proc is a lot more reliable for gauging the average effect than measuring a proc of a proc (which we can't get at anyway), and is the only apples to apples way of comparing Blade Ward with other avoidance enchants.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:12 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
MrDuck wrote:Well i'm not talking about proc rate, but actual uptime of the Blade Ward buff, so basically the time for how long i have increased parry. I count that as much more valuable information, and i even like these results :P It could do more damage, but overall avoidance, if the uptime is,lets say, 20%, it's 0,5% avoidance on average over the course of a fight, nothing i'd throw out of the window.
No, the uptime is not very useful unless you are not block capped. If it wasn't consumed on a parry, then uptime would be a better indicator of the power of the buff. Unfortunately, a high uptime relative to the number of procs just measures an amount of time where you know you got no mitigation benefit from the proc.


I disagree strongly, uptime is a useful metric, and in fact *the* metric on the avoidance side of the enchant. The actual number of parries you get from the enchant has a very high variance, and looking at the actual number of parries you got doesn't tell you whether those parries were due to the enchant, nor does it give you any basis for comparison with other avoidance enchants. Measuring a proc is a lot more reliable for gauging the average effect than measuring a proc of a proc (which we can't get at anyway), and is the only apples to apples way of comparing Blade Ward with other avoidance enchants.

You know how much it increases your parry by, so you can average out what portion of parries you got with the proc up that can be attributed to blade ward pretty easily, that result gives a good basis for comparison. All the duration gives you is the amount of time the proc was up in which you got nothing.

EDIT: The variance isn't that high because per proc it can only be 1 or zero.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Dorvan » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:23 pm

Fridmarr wrote:You know how much it increases your parry by, so you can average out what portion of parries you got with the proc up that can be attributed to blade ward pretty easily, that result gives a good basis for comparison. All the duration gives you is the amount of time the proc was up in which you got nothing.


The duration gives you the amount of time during which you had the added parry. Even though you won't always get a parry from the proc, the uptime does directly get at the average avoidance increase. I don't know what you mean about that variance being small because the value is 0 or 1. Variance in absolute terms means nothing. The seize of the effect we're looking at is on the order of .005, so the variance of looking at actual parries makes a huge difference. You'd need a huge sample of actual parries to have the variance reasonable relative to the effect size, whereas uptime is a much easier way of getting at this value. Counting parries is a bad way at getting at the avoidance effectiveness of this enchant.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby majiben » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:07 pm

I think I might see what dorvan is arguing:

Let's use simple numbers to fill the combat table

Without proc
Code: Select all
1-10 Miss
11-30 Parry
31-50 Dodge


With proc
Code: Select all
1-10 Miss
11-32 Parry
33-52 Dodge


Now if you rolled a 51 in the first situation you would have been hit, in the second one you dodged the attack because of the proc increased the range of general avoidance even if the parry chance didn't do the avoiding itself. Now which way is the better way to model? I can't say. More a matter of perspective.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby theothersteve7 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:49 pm

It seems like 2 ppm is normal. Assuming you have around 20% parry, maybe a hair more, the charge will get consumed in about three hits on average. This means you get, on a 2s swing timer mob, about three attacks every thirty seconds. That's 20% uptime of 200 parry rating, putting the enchant's value at 40 parry rating.

The best way to model this, IMO, is just assume the charge lasts long enough to be consumed every time. It kind of normalizes with the mob's attack speed; the slower the swing, the more likely to fall off; the faster, the less one charge of avoidance matters. Higher parry values make this not as good (they steal the charges), but not by any earth-shattering amount.

40 parry rating isn't great, but I'd take it over 20 strength.
Moo.
theothersteve7
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:45 am

Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Ekko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:28 pm

If it's 2 ppm, and you're around say....20% parry rating before the proc, is it a good assumption to say the average dmg for this enchant would be 2(ppm) * 0.22(parry chance when proc is on) * 700(avg dmg) = 308 dpm = ...5.13 dps :roll:
Ekko
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest