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[25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

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[25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Lewid » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:49 am

Attempted this cold with the usual array of WG pugs, post Archavron. Was a miserable fail. I assembled a much better crew and managed, in 3 attempts, to bring down the 10 man version. I'm interested in going back with a more organized crew to take the 25 man version down but considering that we were barely getting the elemental down in time (usually at the 8-9 stack point) I am concerned that we won't be able to handle the dps requirement of the 25 man version. I guess what I'm asking is, is 25 man significantly harder than the 10 man in terms of the individual average requirement to get the adds down in time? Experiential reflections are very welcome here!
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Worldie » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:05 pm

25 men is significantly harder, but not really for the DPS requirement which is similar, but for the amount of people. 25 people which have to spread to not get the chain lightning to oneshot people is complicate.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby lusisia » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:20 am

One thing to note is that on 25-man, the Tempest adds cast Nova as well. This significantly increases the coordination needs.

Seriously, 10-man Em is almost unpuggable and 25-man I don't even want to think about based on the people I've seen in Arch-25.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Serelynn » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:03 pm

On 25 man, have ranged DPS and healers clump up in groups of 2. This will make spreading out much easier, the chain lightning hitting one person and chaining to one person is minimal damage. Accidentally chaining it to a third person or more is bad, but two people is easy and gives you plenty of room. Buddy system!

DPS will need to be quick to switch to the adds, but you don't need amazing damage, I think we found people doing as low as 3,000 DPS was fine. But, you do need everyone switching over quickly. Any delay or failure in focusing on the correct mob and it'll probably blow up on the raid.

Our biggest problem once we implemented the buddy system was making sure the tank marked the correct add and having all DPS assist at that point.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby kensanity » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:24 pm

I pugged this group the other day, needless to say, we had 6 heals 2 tanks rest dps, make sure the dps is at least doing 2.5k or else they aren't carrying their weight. Even at that i'd say its low. had 6 mages all pullin over 3.8 and a hunter going wild.

Um, the hardest thing is switching the add obviously so either get your OT to get that mark up fast or someone to assist in the raid who is good at pointing them out quick. Also, some boss mods give a warning of like 5 seconds to when u should expect to see him enrage an add, so use a 5 second warning to get melee out and moving towards the adds, to save downtime when u actually need to dps the add. ADD> boss.

Healing is generally hard in 25 man beacuse of the chain lightning that someone said prior. This is simple with /range. If you have more than 2 or 3, u gonna be in for a rude awakening. Also, assign a healer to top off each group after nova. This is pretty easy to do preemptively, start casting prayer of healing /chainheal to go off as soon as the nova goes off etc. Eventhough you run away from nova, it hits EVERYTHING in the room. Just less damage the further you are from him. use that as a gauge to see how much healing people will need.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Ewige » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:26 am

After the recent nerfs (to damage and chain lightning max hops) this boss is significantly more puggable if still more demanding than archavon. We went in with 10ish random pugs and 1 shot easy; even if the first overcharge almost made me shit a brick :^P

People still have to know what to do, natch.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby majiben » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:42 am

I disliked the nerf to the adds. I keep killing them with just reflective damage now that they have such low HP.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby SellassieTanks » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:04 am

Majiben wrote:I disliked the nerf to the adds. I keep killing them with just reflective damage now that they have such low HP.


I disagree, it makes it much more interesting when u have 2 adds die at once, or one in between overcharges...It's been said on this forum MANY times, it takes more skill for touch TPS/DPS then it does to just spam max threat spells
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Sophotrates » Sun May 17, 2009 4:31 pm

Was wondering, suppose you're the OT and after the overcharge, an add spawns and start attacking MT from behind the boss. Anyone knows a good solution to pick it up fast? I always have to run to the other side of the room, hugging the wall, waiting till boss leans backward for a hit, targeting the add, taunting and hoping you didn't taunt the boss. Had many wipes due to that problem (overcharge on the add near MT >.<)

Another thing, last try we did it with a druid MT and 2 paladins tanking the adds. We would've succeed if dps didn't died from nova (serious, cmn!) and WG started 3 min later. It was alot easier for both healing and picking up adds (both at start and at spawn).

Oh and suppose you're the only OT, how would you pick up the 4 adds at start? I generally focus the backright one, exorcism the frontright one, judge frontleft one, avenger shield on it so it hits the backleft one (hopefully), target focused add who's most likely going for healers and taunt him. Any other ideas?


God this boss is giving me more nightmares then any other boss, including ulduar...
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby amh » Mon May 18, 2009 12:06 am

Sophotrates wrote:Was wondering, suppose you're the OT and after the overcharge, an add spawns and start attacking MT from behind the boss. Anyone knows a good solution to pick it up fast?


Make a deal with one of the melee. Have that melee always target adds that linger around the boss, so you know who to assist. Then just make a quick dash to get it into taunt-range (shouldn´t be all that far), taunt + exo, back into place.

Sophotrates wrote:Oh and suppose you're the only OT, how would you pick up the 4 adds at start?


In fights like this, I think the off-tank should always be the one pulling (same with for example Faerlina). Two steps into aggro-range, drop a consecrate and just wait. All tanks have a single-target high threat ability, so pulling the boss out of your aoe isn´t a problem. Adds get glued to you, boss gets dragged away. Then you can start positioning however you want.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Sophotrates » Mon May 18, 2009 1:55 pm

Okay just done him with a whoopy 1.5 fps >.< He died a split second before one of the adds would blow himself up, so lucky us. Was solo OT, to pickup the adds I did what I described in my previous post but with a concecration at the bottom of the stairs, no problem, however picking up the extra add with my fps, even targeting him, that was the hardest thing I ever done. Epic struggle against the technology (even had 4 (!) DC's on Archavon after, no wipe ofc).

And for the sake of, we had NO druid in our raid, and out of 8 lootpieces, 5 were druiditems. Wish I hadn't choosed that 4th mage over the feral druid...
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby yappo » Mon May 18, 2009 5:11 pm

Sophotrates wrote:
Oh and suppose you're the only OT, how would you pick up the 4 adds at start? I generally focus the backright one, exorcism the frontright one, judge frontleft one, avenger shield on it so it hits the backleft one (hopefully), target focused add who's most likely going for healers and taunt him. Any other ideas?




Make friends with a hunter :D

Joke apart, we told our two hunters that MD was more important than DPS whenever an add was NOT overcharging. It paid off eventually.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Baelik » Thu May 28, 2009 10:47 pm

Warning: Possible TL;DR post

Just managed to PuG this on my server (Steamwheedle Cartel-EU). We got it on the first try! How rare is that lol.
MT was a warrior with large HP pool was 30+ unbuffed. I was the OT and I should say that tanking the adds was fairly easy. I did take time to get the first repop tho. It killed someone (oops :roll: )

Positioning:
I was tanking adds at the base of the stairs on the left. MT took Emalon to the top right corner of the room and ran to bottom right corner when avoiding the nova.

Pulling:

When starting I was asked to pull and the MT would taunt Emalon off me. So it was AS, Hand of Reckoning, Consecration, Exorcism and HotR on the 4th when he got to me. Yea, pointless to do an AS on the first one, but I still kept hate on all 4. The DPS were really good here, they only started DPS on the boss once the MT got Emalon to the other side, so apart from healer threat there was no competition. Went smooth.

Tanking Adds:
I didn't really do a full 696 rotation on the adds, just kept consecration up while killing overcharged add and SotR on each one when it came of cooldown. I was using HotR initially but once I established hate, little was needed to keep them on me. Only TPSed when I saw the overcharged add or for a little bit on the new add. I did see that in the end the health for few of the adds were low but with focused DPS we never lost an add.

After Overcharged Add:

The new add that pops up appears right at the boss and within a couple of seconds after the Overcharged add is dead. The first one that reappeared took hate from DPS and went further out, so i had to rotate around the adds and get in range for Hand of Reckoning and AS. When I got a hang of the timing it was fairly easy to pick it up. The MT was constantly running to avoid nova and he did a great job of keeping them just in range for me to pick them up. <3 Hand of Reckoning

Edit: Whatever you do as a paladin to pull hate do not use Righteous Defense directly on the add. Use it on a player who has aggro but never the add itself. If your MT has hate on the newly arrived add, you will pull Emalon as well possibly causing a Nova in the middle of the raid.

Loot:
Nothing for me! /cry

Great work overall. Didn't think a PuG could cut it for 25man but I have my first 2 Conquest emblems that prove otherwise.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby yappo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:20 am

I have to say that without help from your dps (hunters/rogues) the job as OT is pretty bad. After downing the overcharged add you still have three adds (hopefully) blocking your taunting capacity.

I just can't understand why tab-targetting works like crap. Four frantic clicks will rotate my three adds and Emalon, the fifth brings me back where I started, at which point the newly spawned add happily proceeds raping one of the healers. AS on Emalon USUALLY works, but far from always. Besides, my healer, understandably, goes ballistic when I turn my back to three adds, eating every hit right into my armour bar 10%, while desperately trying to grab that free-running add.

I've been yelled at and replaced (doing holy work) only to watch the new OT jogging all over the place desperately trying to fixate the new add. I so much prefer the vacation that the MT has. Find a parking place in a corner, pay your rent for that spot. Shut down brain and autorotate for an infinite threat-lead. Watch healers either keep you alive or fail -- in either case you're not personally involved (Ok, ok, ok, stay ready to shieldwall and/or LoH).

My say on this fight is that doable is not good enough. OT tactics on this one definitely should include DPS redirection (hunter MD and similar effects), because then the encounter becomes a walk in the park. Just make it clear that the, lets assume a hunter, on OT-duty will effectively get a lower overall DPS, but never where it counts, namely during the overcharges.
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Re: [25] Emalon the Stormwatcher

Postby Baelik » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:28 am

I understand how you feel on the tab targeting but I don't think the encounter is so bad as you make it sound. TBH pulling the add from behind emalon is the most crucial job of the OT and I think as a Paladin we are well equipped to do this.

I usually use my mouse to click and target the add, and I save Hand of Reckoning and Exorcism to pull hate on the add. If I'm confident the add is not on the MT I may use Righteous Defense. I seldom use AS but it is a last ditch ability to get threat. Once I have him close I put down Consecration and repeatedly use SotR on the new add to marginalize healer threat

While getting Hunters and Rogues to support you on threat generation is good raid practice, I think you should be able to handle a sloppy PuG attempt all the same. You should not hesitate to pass constructive criticism on the raid when someone is messing your job.
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