Glyphs in 3.1

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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Beredas » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:29 am

The problem is that the glyph isn't -20% to TPS, it's -20% to total threat.

IE: You've been doing 7k TPS for 1 minute. Pop HoSalv. Lose roughly 84k threat. You're effectively running at -2.5k TPS for 10 seconds.

Pop it at 5 minutes? Boom... lose over 400k threat.


I imagine a /cancelaura Hand of Salvation macro could work to minimize the threat loss, assuming that the reason for glyphing this was to save your rear with a Sartharion breath-esque attack.

It will be interesting to see how the usual threat lead we enjoy thins out, as DPS itemization gets better. I think threre was a blue who commented on how while at Naxx levels tank threat is pants-on-head retardedly OP, maintaining such a secure threat lead will become more challenging in latter WotLK.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Griffonheart » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:14 pm

Glyph of DP is a no-brainer.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=41103 - With Exorcism able to target non-undead in 3.1, is it useful to get the glyph, which adds 20% damage to it?

Blizz said trash mobs in Ulduar would be less AoE-able than in Naxx. Glyph of HoR is useful for adds and OT consider current raid content because we AoE through them. Is the glyph useful if the mobs in Ulduar cannot be multi-tanked beyond two? Besides, the glyph seems less productive if you're assigned to tank the boss. I think I will get this glyph but wait on experiencing Ulduar before deciding.

Glyph of HoSal is too dangerous and situational, but again, I think I will wait for experiencing Ulduar before deciding. Iron Council looks like a nice fight to use such glyph, for example.

Glyph of SoV, we'll see, depending on how we arrange our gears later on. Having this glyph means we could skip +exp gears. On the same token, lots of Ulduar tanking gears have +exp and we need them >_>

Glyph of RD, I use Glyph of Holy Light instead because at time I'm asked to help heal ^^. Certainly didn't hurt me much because with my current gears I already have 4% hit.

Glyph of Judgment... See my question of Exorcism above.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby majiben » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:29 pm

exorcism is still not using in your general rotation ever when glyphed per thecktd's work.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Griffonheart » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:57 pm

Majiben wrote:exorcism is still not using in your general rotation ever when glyphed per thecktd's work.


I'm no theory expert so may I ask if it's possible to replace a Judgment during the rotation for Exorcism instead, consider Exorcism hits harder than Judgment and could be casted on any target in 3.1? For me I tend (in Naxx) to use it when CD allows, along with Consecration and Avenger's Shield.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby knaughty » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:14 pm

Majiben wrote:exorcism is still not using in your general rotation ever when glyphed per thecktd's work.


My reading of his analysis was that subbing Exorcism for every second Judgement was a TPS gain. Off to re-check...
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:27 pm

I think JsE was only a gain when using SoB and the Exorcism glyph. Should check again, though.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby knaughty » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:28 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I think JsE was only a gain when using SoB and the Exorcism glyph. Should check again, though.

Exo > JoB under all circumstances - Judging Blood is terrible DPS/TPS.

Looks like we have to wait for the new "two-roll" sim anyway.

*edit* Results in:

Exorcism beats every possible judgement, regardless of glyphs. Which means you probably should be subbing exo in every 18 seconds, which makes the Exo glyph substantially better than Judgment.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:18 am

Knaughty wrote:*edit* Results in:

Exorcism beats every possible judgement, regardless of glyphs. Which means you probably should be subbing exo in every 18 seconds, which makes the Exo glyph substantially better than Judgment.


Glad to see some confirmation, although it's probably a little early to tell if the Exorcism glyph would be a staple. I'll keep this in mind till Ulduar is out.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby majiben » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:22 am

You are however giving up a good chunk of safety net for a minor tps boost.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:18 am

Which safety net? I intend to use Divine Plea Glyph, which is from what I've been reading a staple mitigation everyone wants. Mind give some examples?
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Oryann » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:36 am

Griffonheart wrote:Which safety net? I intend to use Divine Plea Glyph, which is from what I've been reading a staple mitigation everyone wants. Mind give some examples?


He is saying that there is a much bigger possibility JoTJ will fall off due to a miss and only using half of the amount of judgments if I understood correctly.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:50 am

Why not just delay the exo substitution if JotJ is in danger of falling off? Seems like a simple enough judgment call.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Oryann » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:04 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Why not just delay the exo substitution if JotJ is in danger of falling off? Seems like a simple enough judgment call.


First Judge(20sec duration)----------Exo(First substitution 11 seconds left on Judgment duration)---------Second Judge(2 seconds Judgment duration left)

Conclusion: if the second judge misses you will have a 7(give or take lag) second downtime of JoTJ before you can judge again.

This test was done with 1 point in imp judgment.
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:29 am

Oryann wrote:
Griffonheart wrote:He is saying that there is a much bigger possibility JoTJ will fall off due to a miss and only using half of the amount of judgments if I understood correctly.


I see. Thanks for the explanation. I was hoping to explore other suitable glyphs for tanking in 3.1 and suggested the possibility of using Exorcism. He's right on the threat part; threat is not an issue at the moment for risking JotJ gap mid-battle.

7 seconds of gap if Judgment drops... since Crusade spec is also popular, perhaps 2 pts into Imp. Judgment for 8 second Judge? Even with two pts in that talent we could still use 9696 rotation as long as we timed it right, but shorten the CD to minimize the risk/gap?
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Re: Glyphs in 3.1

Postby Dorvan » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:18 am

Griffonheart wrote:7 seconds of gap if Judgment drops... since Crusade spec is also popular, perhaps 2 pts into Imp. Judgment for 8 second Judge? Even with two pts in that talent we could still use 9696 rotation as long as we timed it right, but shorten the CD to minimize the risk/gap?


8 second Judgment isn't compatible with 969. You could break 969 to judge a little sooner if your judgment falls off, but all you're doing is reducing the downtime from 7 seconds to 6. Spending the point in Imp Judgment isn't a big deal since it'd only go in benediction otherwise most likely, but it doesn't do much to protect you from JotJ downtime either.
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