[10] Maly Where to tank p1

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

[10] Maly Where to tank p1

Postby Shroomous » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:34 am

I pugged my first Maly try. Epic fail.

Group comp:
Two 213 geared healers, druid/sham.
One mage, two locks all very well geared.
Ret pally and hunter with Naxx-10ish gear.
Feral druid with not so great gear.
DK, entry level 80 gear.

Main problem: Sparks were getting to the boss.

Try #1 I didn't even get a chance to think about positioning. He was about halfway between the center and the edge. Before I got into the groove of things a spark had gotten to him and we wiped.
Try #2 I tried kiting him around the edge as in the Tankspot video. We survived a little longer. But, a spark formed on the edge and I couldn't move him fast enough before it got to him. People suggested I tank him in the center so there is more time to get the sparks.
Try #3 I tanked him in the center. First spark got to him and I popped DP. A healer died in the vortex, no SS and no b-res happened even though I asked on vent and we had a good 20 sec before the wipe eventually hit.

I know a lot of this is not my fault and I just need people with more experience or patience for wipes. And three healers. But, it seems like it's really my job in this fight to keep him away from the sparks, and I'm having a lot of trouble doing that.
Shroomous
80 Draenei Protection Paladin
Proudmoore
Shroomous
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: WA

Postby Jasari » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:32 am

If you don't know how to properly position/kite malygos to have each spark pass conveniently right over the center of the platform you're going to have a lot of trouble.

Coming out of each vortex, you want to pull malygos away from wherever the next spark is coming from. You have your DPS/healers stand in the center of the platform and kill the spark when it's directly over head. You then move malygos so that the next spark has to fly over the exact same place in order to each him. Again, DPS just kill it as it passes over them.

P1 is 95% the tank responsibility to make sure everything's positioned correctly.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:57 am

With Malygos, you're going to have to get into the groove (much like with other somewhat difficult bosses) of being able to call things out quickly.

If a spark is coming in from behind the boss, it's the DPS's responsibility to stun and kill it before the boss eats it. If it's coming from in front of the boss (that is, anywhere in the boss' 180 degree cone), it's your job to either reposition the boss quickly, or to call out for the DK to grip it. Remember that grip has a longer cooldown than spark spawns.

So, let's say that grip is on cooldown and the spark is in front of the boss. First, you have to identify that this is the case early. Increasing your camera zoom range will help immensely. As soon as you identify the spark's location, you tell the raid to rotate around the boss (either clockwise or counter-clockwise). Your raid will have to know to expect this beforehand, or else they'll think "what?" and wipe.

Once you've rotated so that the spark is behind the boss, it is the DPS's responsibility (at least if you have informed them about rotating).



Yes, you can just kite the boss around the platform and hope for the best, but that's a waste of time and energy. If your raid can get the hang of rotating (which is easier, to begin with), you'll have the sparks under control.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Postby Jasari » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:13 am

Belloc wrote:Yes, you can just kite the boss around the platform and hope for the best, but that's a waste of time and energy. If your raid can get the hang of rotating (which is easier, to begin with), you'll have the sparks under control.


You don't kite him around blindly, hoping sparks will spawn in the correct spot. You purposefully move him away from where each spark is coming from. This takes zero reliance on death grip, and even if you have consecutive sparks spawn on opposite sides of the platform, you still have enough time to move him and get him into position. This makes it so that the DPS doesn't have to move at all (which results in much much much higher DPS, especially for casters). One tank moving is far easier than the rest of the raid moving.

I acknowledge that there are other ways to do the fight, but I'd be impressed to see a 6min achievement done any way besides having the tank kite around the platform.
User avatar
Jasari
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:30 am

I imagine you'd run into major issues with spark uptime and DPS if you moved him that wildly or often.

6 minute Malygos involves dealing with a total of two sparks (hitting phase 2 before the second vortex, or very shortly afterwards). Too much movement, and you've missed that mark easily.


And other players are going to have to move anyway, unless they want to get breathed on while you're repositioning.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:34 am

I think the idea is to kite the dragon such that DPS can stand on a pool and hit the dragon while you so the 2nd incoming spark paths over the top of the existing pool, so there's no DPS loss and no DK required. You'd be moving in large arcs, in theory.

I personally didn't have to kite Maly around on our 6m, but I can see how that's superior to either bringing double DK (which starts getting melee heavy for a 10m), or wiping until you get lucky with spawn positions.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Postby ShieldLove » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:29 am

Center tanking is easy to understand, but makes a lot of work on your main tank (which it sounds like is you).

First, maximize your camera's zoom out distance. /script commands have been used since Tempest Keep to strech your camera way out. At max distance you should be able to see two spark spawn points at once. Clean up your interface if you can't.

There are only 4 possible spark locations. If you can see two at all times, you only have to swing your camrea 90 degrees to check the third. If your raid has to call it the location of the spark, you are not an attentive enough tank.

Keep the raid in the center. The goal is to keep raid in the glowing spark carcass in the center, with Malygos' hip against the raid. You get two sparks between each vortex. You always want the raid between the closest spark and Malygos' hip. Do it right, and the spark will always fly over the raid to get to malygos.

Move the boss by strafing wide. If you're doing it right, malygos will follow you along the edge of the inner ring. The sparks move too fast to make backing up a valid option.

Cleaning up after a vortex is easier than you would think. Spin your camera while in the vortex, locate the closest spark, and run the exact opposite direction of it. Strafe around malygos to put his hip back against the raid.

Do all this, and your raid will have all it needs to succeed this phase. It is up to your dps to make the spark die in the right spot.

DK's are not mandatory to take down malygos. Your raid simply needs an attentive tank who thinks quickly. If this is you, enjoy the challenge. If it is not you, put on a 2 hander and let someone else do it.

Questions, comments, concerns, queries, conundrums?
ShieldLove
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:59 am

Postby Maswin » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:36 am

Think ShieldLove has covered most of it.

I use the minimap heavily during the vortex; face your camera at the next spark spawn (or the one that looks like it will get to him first) and then just remember to move in the opposite direction when you land.

The whole zone is so disorientating the easiest marker to use is the minimap, can't go wrong with compass directions!

As for the sparks themselves, you really need to emphasise to your DPS that they have a heavy responsibility to be aware of them, call them, mark them, slow them down & stun etc...there's only so much movement you can do sometimes. It's hard to spot them as tank (with his big beard in your face), especially if you're trying to focus a tight rotation due to their increasing threat, and also at the same time co-ordinate his movement with sparks movement.

They have no excuse not to take a large slice of responsibility on this; they face no AOE/tail swipe/etc danger, they just have to do their rotation and they should know it well enough to be able to rotate the camera the same as you. You need to be aware of any slow/stuns/incaps (i.e. roots etc) your raid has and make sure they use them to control the sparks.

DK definitely isn't necessary, but if you do have one you should utilise this to your best efforts. It will help you with not having to move Malygos so often, and help the whole raid dps Phase 1 faster therefore less chance to wipe on Phase 3.
Maswin
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:10 am

Postby Shroomous » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:58 pm

Maybe the issue I'm having now is that it's hard for me to be simultaneously looking for sparks, strafing/moving, and doing my rotation all at the same time. If I'm trying to do all three, I'm inevitably going to do one of them less effectively, because effective movement really seems to require a dedicated hand. Do you guys move/strafe with the same hand you do your rotation with?

I'm inclined to go with the last poster, and just have the ranged dps who are standing in the center responsible for calling spark locations. All that was happening in this run was somebody was yelling "spark!" but not saying where it was coming from. "Spark southeast!" would've made my job a lot easier.

Is there any particular reason why the tank should be looking around for the sparks, when it's much easier for the ranged to?

I guess my UI is pretty messy, so I can work on that. I wasn't seeing the sparks in time, but having a bigass dragon in my face wasn't helping.
Shroomous
80 Draenei Protection Paladin
Proudmoore
Shroomous
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: WA

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:22 pm

Ranged/a DK calling spark spawn directions is certainly helpful, but it's no replacement for seeing it with your own eyes and being able to react accordingly.

There's a lot going on that fight, and yes, it's quite a bit to keep track of. One thing you can do is macro the entire rotation into a single key that you can mindlessly spam while you're looking around or moving.

Code: Select all
/castsequence Judgement of Wisdom,Shield of Righteousness,Holy Shield,Hammer of the Righteous,Consecration,Shield of Righteousness,Judgement of Wisdom,Hammer of the Righteous,Holy Shield,Shield of Righteousness,Consecration,Hammer of the Righteous


This macro is a shortcut, and not a substitution for critical thinking, but it can come in handy if you need to be maximizing your TPS while moving/looking/yelling on vent/surfing pron/whatever.

I have it bound to my tilde key, and use it when appropriate.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: [10] Maly Where to tank p1

Postby culhag » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:47 am

What about the melee dps ? Will Malygos still be at melee range with them in the pool in the middle and the boss kited around ?

We always used DKs to position de sparks but it's far from being perfect and Maly regularly eats a spark, so I'm curious about that kiting method.
User avatar
culhag
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1729
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:50 am
Location: France

Re: [10] Maly Where to tank p1

Postby Makaijin » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:34 am

Instead of kiting him around the edge of the platform, you can try kiting him around the middle smaller circle. That way, theres less travel involved to position in time for the next spark, and melee wouldn't have to move much either.
Image
Makaijin
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:23 am

Re:

Postby Kelaan » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:16 pm

Shroomous wrote:Is there any particular reason why the tank should be looking around for the sparks, when it's much easier for the ranged to?
I guess my UI is pretty messy, so I can work on that. I wasn't seeing the sparks in time, but having a bigass dragon in my face wasn't helping.


As tank, your job is to move the dragon away from the sparks -- if you are actively looking for them, your reaction time will be better. If I hear "spark at southeast", I have to (a) recognize that it's a new spark, (b) recognize where the hell my dragon is. Now, having someone say "it's directly behind you" helps a ton, of course.

I find that zooming out as far as possible (usinga console command), and frequently panning the camera, is handy. For vortexes, the only thing I worry about is where the spark is relative to the dragon. When we land, I go in strange places, facing changes, etc, but Malygos keeps the same orientation. If I know the spark is at his hindquarters, I can immediately start booking away from that as I land.

Watch the Project Marmot Malygos video. Watch it again. You'll see that Ciderhelm moves his camera quite a lot. The key is both in being alert, and not getting tunnel vision (and forgetting to look for new sparks). Sparks spawn at a set rate, as do vortex casts - so you basically get ~3 sparks to worry about between each vortex. (It might be four, I lose count, hehe.) Practice will make you better; I find that being proactive and rotating to the Opposite Side of the platform from where the spark is coming will let you stack them generally in the middle of the platform. Having a DK to aid placement, of course, makes this much easier... but we rarely have one in our 10s.

edit:
If your UI is messy, fix that. You will likely need the visibility in order to clearly recognize sparks. Having someone else mark them with a raid mark (esp in a vortex) is great, but not really essential once you get good at keeping an eye on them. More than anything, though, practice (for placement) and situational awareness (for being alert to sparks) are what will make you succeed.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: [10] Maly Where to tank p1

Postby Shroomous » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:13 am

Thanks for the help guys. Did my third kill tonight, on the second try and with two noobs.
The main problem I was having was sparks after vortex, I think. The thing that helped the most was facing my camera during vortex, r-clicking as soon as I land to face that direction, then moving backwards.
Shroomous
80 Draenei Protection Paladin
Proudmoore
Shroomous
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: WA

Re: [10] Maly Where to tank p1

Postby Mozen » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:26 am

Our RL always asks the hunters to turn on elemental detection, this way they don't even have to turn their cameras, just keep an eye on the mini-map and ping it when a spark shows up.

Personally I find it more reliable to find the sparks myself.

Kite Maly around your melee/spark drop-zone. It is the tank's responsibility to position Maly so that your melee dps have a chance to receive the spark buff. Do not ask the raid to switch sides unless you really have no choice. The whole purpose of kiting Maly is to stack the sparks so your raid dps is magnified. Asking the raid to relocate is forcing them to lower their dps.

Do not rely on DKs to manage your sparks! Although if you have a reliable DK, you can ask him to grip the second spark for the following reason:

1. The first spark will only arrive after the first vortex. Kiting Maly away from the first spark is as easy as heading away from the spark when you drop from the vortex.
2. Kill the spark when it reaches the center, now the raid is positioned nicely for a damage buff.
3. Second spark appears, have the DK grip it to the center and kill it.

This means:
- no movement once you come out of vortex, maximizes both TPS and DPS on Maly throughout both sparks
- ensures the raid gets both sparks, allowing you to enter P2 before the second vortex

In my opinion this is the only time when a DK is necessary. If you're not going for 6min then just kite him in step 3 above. If you're lucky or if you kite him close enough, your melee should have minimum dps loss from the movement. Just make sure you turn Maly's head when he breathes. Practice finding sparks and you should always have enough time to turn his head, then resume kiting after the breath.
Mozen
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:33 am

Next

Return to T7: Naxx / Maly / Sarth / Archavon

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest