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3.2 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:09 pm

Rhî wrote:I didn't forget mentioning hammer, Majiben.
HoR not HotR
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby Rhî » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:55 pm

Hand of Reckoning?
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:01 pm

Yup. With HoR, Exorcism, and AS you can have long range threat on 5 mobs in just over 1.5 seconds.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby Rhî » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:15 pm

So, warriors use their ae taunt and have all in 1,5 seconds?! ;)

I don't think we have to discuss this deeper. My first point was, that an unglyphed AS doesn't boost up a speedrun compared with a glyphed AS. Anyway that part of the discussion was fun, too.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:21 pm

Challenging shout + shield block can be put to great effect. However it is technically a fixate and not a taunt (no threat transfer). Anyways let's agree to move on.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby leperkhaun » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:13 am

Dont know if its been mentioned, but according to MMO Champ, Flask of Stoneblood is now 1300 hp.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:56 am

TPS breakdown of stats by item point allocation (i.e. for gemming) is now done. Linky.

I can repeat the analysis with equal values rather than equal ipoint allocations (i.e. 10 STR vs 10 BV vs 10 STA instead of 10 STR vs 15.4 BV vs 15 STA) if you want those instead/as well.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby deuce » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:38 pm

Knaughty wrote:Engineering: Toys & a mote farming tool. Buffed slightly in 3.1, but still crap. NB: I am an engineer. I'm allowed to say it's crap.


Reticulated Armor Webbing - Permanently inserts reticulated armor webbing into plate gloves, increasing armor by 800. http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=63770
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby ael- » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:42 pm

This wasn't an issue in 3.1, but would there be any reason to stack up a bit more expertise and drop the SoV/SoCorruption glyph?

In 3.0.x there aren't really any alternatives worth considering, but 3.1 has some tasty ones like Divine Plea, Salvation and HotR.

Salvation seems weird but... if used in conjunction with a careful eye on a threat meter it can be pretty powerful.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:28 pm

There's little point in "stacking" expertise, at least in the form of gems/enchants. You'd be better off with an equally itemized amount of STR or Hit for threat anyway (see the link I posted above).

If your concern is that there's a lot of gear with expertise on it in Ulduar, well, that's a valid concern. It only takes 70 expertise rating from gear before you hit the dodge cap if you have the SoV glyph and Combat Expertise, less if you get a racial bonus. A dwarf using a mace only needs about 30 expertise rating to hit the cap.

Before the dodge soft-cap, the SoV glyph gives you a bigger DPS boost than the Judgement one does (72 TPS for Judgement, 109 TPS for SoV). So below that point you'd be better off dropping the Judgement glyph.

After that point, the SoV glyph loses about half it's effectiveness, dropping it to 54 TPS, and the Judgement glyph becomes the winner).

So really, the question is whether you have more than 70 expertise rating on your gear (55 for Humans w/sword or mace, 39 for Dwarves w/mace). If you do, drop the SoV glyph, otherwise drop the Judgement glyph.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby majiben » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:48 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it takes 26 expertise skill, or 213 rating to reach the soft cap raw. We gain 6 skill from talents so we only need 20 skill or 164 rating. If we use the SoV glyph we only need 10 skill or 82 rating, not 70.

Assuming the threat numbers are correct and 10 expertise skill is worth 109 TPS below the dodge cap and worth 54.5 tps above the cap or 10.9 TPS per skill below the cap, 5.45 TPS per skill above. When the player has 17 expertise skill from gear or 139 rating, the SoV glyph will take you to 33 expertise skill total (3 skill below the cap, 7 above) and worth 71 TPS.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:20 pm

No, you're entirely correct. I was reading my own graphs wrong. I was using the upper end of the steep drop on the curve when I should have been using the bottom end. On the graph of TPS vs. expertise rating, the decline stops at 82 rating.

So the numbers I posted above should be 82 expertise rating, 57 for Humans and 41 for dwarves. And your calculation of the crossover point of the two glyphs looks right to me.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby Kihra » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Without trying to deep end on a Divinity discussion, I would suggest having Good, Acceptable and Bad choices for the 3 filler talent points and maybe move Divinity and Divine Guardian into the Acceptable category. I certainly don't think Divinity is as bad a pick as Reckoning or Stoicism.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby majiben » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:58 pm

Without any proof to back up divinity's usefulness and all the things against it, divinity should not be ranked as acceptable over DG which acts as EH for most worst case scenarios we will encounter.
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Re: 3.1 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Postby Zironic » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:04 pm

Majiben wrote:Without any proof to back up divinity's usefulness and all the things against it, divinity should not be ranked as acceptable over DG which acts as EH for most worst case scenarios we will encounter.


In what case exactly is the DG talent EH?

I think Divinity is just as viable of a choice as DS, DG and HoJ. It won't make a significant difference, but neither will the three others.
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